[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
He asked a question.
Stop raging on the guy. Some people really don’t know.[/quote]
Alffi never just asks a question. I’m surprised he’s not making a case for black people’s kicks being inferior.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Alffi wrote:
The guy in the second video seems like a little bit of a sadistic asshole.
Kicking someone with one’s shin always seemed a bit weird to me. Seems it takes out the biggest advantage there is to kicking, which is reach. Is this why it seems to be used in relatively few martial arts?[/quote]
You kick somebody with your foot and there’s about 1.2 billion bones you could break.
But with some conditioning, you can effectively turn your shin into a piece of cement. Look up Muay thai fighters, they do this shit all the time.[/quote]
Might be just my ignorance but I have not heard of people breaking their feet kicking. You also have to factor in that most striking arts concentrate on foot strikes so you would expect there to be more foot injuries regardless. The toes seem to be most at danger. I have seen footage of people breaking their own shins in half trying to kick someone though. I believe the physics are such that you can kick just about anything really hard with your (usually shoe protected) foot but throwing your shin at somebody sporting bigger legs than yours could be a disaster, not to even mention doing it to far more durable inanimate objects. Breaking one’s toes could still keep one up in a fight but a busted shin could make it hard to stand up.
People of the old striking traditions have done some real harm conditioning their bodies like that, whether they became tougher or not. I suppose Wolfe’s law supports the strengthening part but a lot of testimony also implies arthritis, nerve damage and such. We spend all day putting massive pressure on the balls of our feet as well as the heels, not to mention the forces generated in jumping. Banging our knuckles or shins into rock hard, thick trees and things to that direction seem like a different story.
I emphasize again that I’m not speaking from personal MA experience or trying to belittle practitioners of any one art. Just a little curious.[/quote]
If you’re talking about “stomping” style kicks, like side kicks, oblique kicks, push/teep kicks, etc… then yes those are very safe to throw with the bottom of the foot, especially with shoes on. But things like round kicks and front kicks are very dangerous to throw with the top of the foot. Styles which actually practice full contact sparring/fighting (Muay Thai, Kyokushin, etc…) throw round and front style kicks with the shins because it’s a much more durable part of the body.
i give up
[quote]Eli B wrote:
Are you kidding? Alffi is the perhaps the worst troll on this site. He has written some of the most ignorant vile racist shit on these boards.
Like I said, a moron.[/quote]
I really do have to wonder if he’s serious on this thread…
Yes, lots of TMA use foot kicks. I’d differentiate between “foot” (instead, toes, ball of foot) and heel kick.
But the other reality is that most TMAs do very little full contact competition/sparring, and it might behoove you to take a look at the guys who actually kick the crap out of each other, and take note of what actually works.
[quote]Spartiates wrote:
[quote]Eli B wrote:
Are you kidding? Alffi is the perhaps the worst troll on this site. He has written some of the most ignorant vile racist shit on these boards.
Like I said, a moron.[/quote]
I really do have to wonder if he’s serious on this thread…
Yes, lots of TMA use foot kicks. I’d differentiate between “foot” (instead, toes, ball of foot) and heel kick.
But the other reality is that most TMAs do very little full contact competition/sparring, and it might behoove you to take a look at the guys who actually kick the crap out of each other, and take note of what actually works.[/quote]
Regardless of whether or not the asker is a troll, this is a good answer.
When I did karate, it was strictly point fighting styled sparring. We’d go light to no contact. The times that we did go a little harder, I feared for my feet. I’ve hurt them by having high kicks blocked with the forearm, angled front kicks hitting the elbow, body kicks hitting the hip bone. Also, one can argue that these arts have been around for centuries, but I think we’ve all seen at this point that not every discipline that has lasted the ages is perfect (scratch that, none are). Martial arts in general are mired with tradition, and hence inertia.
Why somebody would agree to take a hard leg kick like that without checking it is beyond me. Those shits hurt like hell, and a good one will leave you limping for days. You really have to wonder how professional fighters take them and keep going. Who did Forrest fight when landed the most leg kicks ever in a round? That guys had to limp around the Octagon like a cripple after that round. Also, didn’t Couture run into serious muscle damage in his thigh from taking leg kicks?
Don’t feed the troll guys. Its bad form.
ill try and find a picture of Urijah’s leg after the Aldo fight. That was beyond nasty.
Right here. This is from 4 days later, when the swelling was at its worst.
EDIT: And a vid from the morning after:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
[quote]Spartiates wrote:
[quote]Eli B wrote:
Are you kidding? Alffi is the perhaps the worst troll on this site. He has written some of the most ignorant vile racist shit on these boards.
Like I said, a moron.[/quote]
I really do have to wonder if he’s serious on this thread…
Yes, lots of TMA use foot kicks. I’d differentiate between “foot” (instead, toes, ball of foot) and heel kick.
But the other reality is that most TMAs do very little full contact competition/sparring, and it might behoove you to take a look at the guys who actually kick the crap out of each other, and take note of what actually works.[/quote]
Regardless of whether or not the asker is a troll, this is a good answer.
When I did karate, it was strictly point fighting styled sparring. We’d go light to no contact. The times that we did go a little harder, I feared for my feet. I’ve hurt them by having high kicks blocked with the forearm, angled front kicks hitting the elbow, body kicks hitting the hip bone. Also, one can argue that these arts have been around for centuries, but I think we’ve all seen at this point that not every discipline that has lasted the ages is perfect (scratch that, none are). Martial arts in general are mired with tradition, and hence inertia.[/quote]
I approve of your answer. You note that tradition does not always equal integrity, and yet it seems like tradition has been used as a slight argument here now (thai boxing going far back).
I get the feeling of a new bro-orthodoxy building up here where people are afraid to ask questions over being deemed silly because of what they deem to be the latest fad from tv/MMA, taken for granted. “It’s obvious, stupid!” I bet I could also find a forum where any form of grappling was announced inferior to BJJ, over the above logic.
Did the kick Griffin threw really crack that dudes femur? If so that’s pretty fucked up.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
I approve of your answer. You note that tradition does not always equal integrity, and yet it seems like tradition has been used as a slight argument here now (thai boxing going far back).
[/quote]
Tradition does not equal historic fact. Tradition simply means an adherence to certain customs for the sake of uniformity.
People mentioned Thai boxing because it’s a sport/martial art which has always involved hard, full contact sparring/fighting, and it has been around for a long time. I mentioned Kyokushin as another example of a system which practices hard sparring to further strengthen the argument.
In other words, Muay Thai was cited not because it’s been around for a long time, but because it’s a well established art which effectively illustrates the fact that fighters who actually practice kicking other people full contact do not throw round or front kicks with the top of the foot, but instead with the shin. They do this for a reason, which has already been clearly explained.
[quote]
I get the feeling of a new bro-orthodoxy building up here where people are afraid to ask questions over being deemed silly because of what they deem to be the latest fad from tv/MMA, taken for granted. “It’s obvious, stupid!” I bet I could also find a forum where any form of grappling was announced inferior to BJJ, over the above logic.[/quote]
And I’m sure that I could find a forum somewhere where the members would adamantly argue against the existence of gravity. That doesn’t make the argument any less asinine or contrary to the facts which we have in front of us though.
People can ask any questions they want, it’s only when they ask a question with an already formed opinion in their mind, only to argue against the answers that they are given without any real evidence to support their opinion that people get upset.
Your original question was a reasonable one. Your continued attempts to argue against the answer that was given to your question without any real basis for your argument is not.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]Alffi wrote:
I approve of your answer. You note that tradition does not always equal integrity, and yet it seems like tradition has been used as a slight argument here now (thai boxing going far back).
[/quote]
Tradition does not equal historic fact. Tradition simply means an adherence to certain customs for the sake of uniformity.
People mentioned Thai boxing because it’s a sport/martial art which has always involved hard, full contact sparring/fighting, and it has been around for a long time. I mentioned Kyokushin as another example of a system which practices hard sparring to further strengthen the argument.
In other words, Muay Thai was cited not because it’s been around for a long time, but because it’s a well established art which effectively illustrates the fact that fighters who actually practice kicking other people full contact do not throw round or front kicks with the top of the foot, but instead with the shin. They do this for a reason, which has already been clearly explained.
[quote]
I get the feeling of a new bro-orthodoxy building up here where people are afraid to ask questions over being deemed silly because of what they deem to be the latest fad from tv/MMA, taken for granted. “It’s obvious, stupid!” I bet I could also find a forum where any form of grappling was announced inferior to BJJ, over the above logic.[/quote]
And I’m sure that I could find a forum somewhere where the members would adamantly argue against the existence of gravity. That doesn’t make the argument any less asinine or contrary to the facts which we have in front of us though.
People can ask any questions they want, it’s only when they ask a question with an already formed opinion in their mind, only to argue against the answers that they are given without any real evidence to support their opinion that people get upset.
Your original question was a reasonable one. Your continued attempts to argue against the answer that was given to your question without any real basis for your argument is not.[/quote]
/thread…/troll.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]Alffi wrote:
I approve of your answer. You note that tradition does not always equal integrity, and yet it seems like tradition has been used as a slight argument here now (thai boxing going far back).
[/quote]
Tradition does not equal historic fact. Tradition simply means an adherence to certain customs for the sake of uniformity.
People mentioned Thai boxing because it’s a sport/martial art which has always involved hard, full contact sparring/fighting, and it has been around for a long time. I mentioned Kyokushin as another example of a system which practices hard sparring to further strengthen the argument.
In other words, Muay Thai was cited not because it’s been around for a long time, but because it’s a well established art which effectively illustrates the fact that fighters who actually practice kicking other people full contact do not throw round or front kicks with the top of the foot, but instead with the shin. They do this for a reason, which has already been clearly explained.
[quote]
I get the feeling of a new bro-orthodoxy building up here where people are afraid to ask questions over being deemed silly because of what they deem to be the latest fad from tv/MMA, taken for granted. “It’s obvious, stupid!” I bet I could also find a forum where any form of grappling was announced inferior to BJJ, over the above logic.[/quote]
And I’m sure that I could find a forum somewhere where the members would adamantly argue against the existence of gravity. That doesn’t make the argument any less asinine or contrary to the facts which we have in front of us though.
People can ask any questions they want, it’s only when they ask a question with an already formed opinion in their mind, only to argue against the answers that they are given without any real evidence to support their opinion that people get upset.
Your original question was a reasonable one. Your continued attempts to argue against the answer that was given to your question without any real basis for your argument is not.[/quote]
oh god thank u sento. Im pretty sure most people that posted in this thread gave him the answer he was looking for…with plenty of facts to back it up.
He likes to argue fact for the sake of it. That shit is trollish.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
I bet I could also find a forum where any form of grappling was announced inferior to BJJ, over the above logic.[/quote]
no shit
[quote]Alffi wrote:
The guy in the second video seems like a little bit of a sadistic asshole.
Kicking someone with one’s shin always seemed a bit weird to me. Seems it takes out the biggest advantage there is to kicking, which is reach. Is this why it seems to be used in relatively few martial arts?[/quote]
If I throw a power kick and connect with my foot, thats all fine and dandy. However, if I hit an elbow or hip or hard part of the head with my foot, there’s a good chance it will get hurt. With a shin kick, you can throw a quicker, shorter, torquier kick without risking injury.
[quote]9500 RPM wrote:
[quote]Alffi wrote:
The guy in the second video seems like a little bit of a sadistic asshole.
Kicking someone with one’s shin always seemed a bit weird to me. Seems it takes out the biggest advantage there is to kicking, which is reach. Is this why it seems to be used in relatively few martial arts?[/quote]
If I throw a power kick and connect with my foot, thats all fine and dandy. However, if I hit an elbow or hip or hard part of the head with my foot, there’s a good chance it will get hurt. With a shin kick, you can throw a quicker, shorter, torquier kick without risking injury.[/quote]
The worst is hitting someone’s knee…I’ve messed up ligaments in my ankle and broken a foot. I’ve also had a fractured shinbone from catching knee even when in proper range.
As for the issues with catching someone’s elbow,most of that comes from bad or lazy kicking technique…not pivoting,turning hip over,etc…etc.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
[quote]9500 RPM wrote:
[quote]Alffi wrote:
The guy in the second video seems like a little bit of a sadistic asshole.
Kicking someone with one’s shin always seemed a bit weird to me. Seems it takes out the biggest advantage there is to kicking, which is reach. Is this why it seems to be used in relatively few martial arts?[/quote]
If I throw a power kick and connect with my foot, thats all fine and dandy. However, if I hit an elbow or hip or hard part of the head with my foot, there’s a good chance it will get hurt. With a shin kick, you can throw a quicker, shorter, torquier kick without risking injury.[/quote]
The worst is hitting someone’s knee…I’ve messed up ligaments in my ankle and broken a foot. I’ve also had a fractured shinbone from catching knee even when in proper range.
As for the issues with catching someone’s elbow,most of that comes from bad or lazy kicking technique…not pivoting,turning hip over,etc…etc. [/quote]
Having your leg kick checked by your opponents knee…FTW. That shit hurts thru shin pads.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
[quote]9500 RPM wrote:
[quote]Alffi wrote:
The guy in the second video seems like a little bit of a sadistic asshole.
Kicking someone with one’s shin always seemed a bit weird to me. Seems it takes out the biggest advantage there is to kicking, which is reach. Is this why it seems to be used in relatively few martial arts?[/quote]
If I throw a power kick and connect with my foot, thats all fine and dandy. However, if I hit an elbow or hip or hard part of the head with my foot, there’s a good chance it will get hurt. With a shin kick, you can throw a quicker, shorter, torquier kick without risking injury.[/quote]
The worst is hitting someone’s knee…I’ve messed up ligaments in my ankle and broken a foot. I’ve also had a fractured shinbone from catching knee even when in proper range.
As for the issues with catching someone’s elbow,most of that comes from bad or lazy kicking technique…not pivoting,turning hip over,etc…etc. [/quote]
How do you figure?
[quote]Khaine wrote:
Right here. This is from 4 days later, when the swelling was at its worst.
EDIT: And a vid from the morning after:
http://www.twitvid.com/QYRSD[/quote]
exactly…what a mess. they were worried about that leg clotting and sending shit up top his brain. scary shit. thanks for finding those btw.
[quote]9500 RPM wrote:
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
[quote]9500 RPM wrote:
[quote]Alffi wrote:
The guy in the second video seems like a little bit of a sadistic asshole.
Kicking someone with one’s shin always seemed a bit weird to me. Seems it takes out the biggest advantage there is to kicking, which is reach. Is this why it seems to be used in relatively few martial arts?[/quote]
If I throw a power kick and connect with my foot, thats all fine and dandy. However, if I hit an elbow or hip or hard part of the head with my foot, there’s a good chance it will get hurt. With a shin kick, you can throw a quicker, shorter, torquier kick without risking injury.[/quote]
The worst is hitting someone’s knee…I’ve messed up ligaments in my ankle and broken a foot. I’ve also had a fractured shinbone from catching knee even when in proper range.
As for the issues with catching someone’s elbow,most of that comes from bad or lazy kicking technique…not pivoting,turning hip over,etc…etc. [/quote]
How do you figure?[/quote]
Which part? Hitting someone’s knee…or my opinion about hitting elbows and kicking technique??