T Nation

Autoimmune, Fertility and Possible Hormone Issues, Help With Labs Needed Please


#1

age = 43
height = 5’6
waist = 32”
weight = 144lb

First I want to thank the good people on this forum for the excellent information that has been shared and also to all the members & mods who give up their valuable time to help people here. It’s already been a massive help to me and I very much appreciate the help/education I’ve been getting on the forums. I’ve had a lot of issues with doctors in the UK. It always seems to be a battle getting help here ):

Apologies in advance for such a long post!

Describe body and facial hair: Slim build with a fair bit of facial and body hair… Beard, legs, chest and back.

Describe where you carry fat and how changed: Never carried much fat, but have put on a little belly fat over the last year or so.

Health conditions, symptoms [history]: Two undescended testicles and was operated on when I was about four years old. I think some damage may have been done to my testicles when they operated as I have a lot of scarring on my testicles. Testicle size are pretty small which I have no idea is anything to do with the undescended testicle issue and development….

I was a very healthy and active child and teenager up until I was about 17. Used to play a lot of sports and played to and international level and represented my country. I did a lot of training but one day I suddenly started having problems with my joints and also issues with cold hands and feet. Long story short spent a few years going from doctor to doctor trying to find out what was wrong with me and in the end they ‘labelled’ me as having Juvenile Systemic Scleroderma which is an autoimmune disease. Plus with the added bonus of Reynolds Phenomena. My main symptoms with this disease were joint and muscle pain, fatigue, very cold hands/feet and very low immune system which lead me to picking up a lot of bugs and viruses. I seemed to just go from one virus to another. Always recovering form something. My glands were and still are sometimes swollen at bottom of my neck (2-4 little pea sized glands) and also the larger gland just below my ears often gets sore and enlarged.

My Systemic Scleroderma has basically been stable for over 20 years now and has actually improved a lot which I think is due to better nutrition, exercising more and less alcohol and recreational drugs. (I drank a lot and did recreational drugs some weekends when I was a teenager and in my tweeties)

*Health conditions, symptoms [Recent history]: As I mentioned above, my Systemic Scleroderma has been stable for some years but other symptoms have popped up which I suspect may not be related to my Systemic Scleroderma and could well be hormone related….

These include…

  • Very fuzzy head. I find it very hard to think straight most of the time and it seems to be getting worse and worse over the last five years or so.

  • Very spaced out feeling a lot of the time.

  • Find it hard to concentrate. - Tired a lot of the time even with good sleep. I normally wake up feeling more tired than I did when I went to bed.

  • Feel way more emotional that I ever did. Often get teary eyed watching silly stuff on TV.

  • Memory is very poor. Doesn’t help that my head is so fuzzy!

  • Often feel I cannot cope doing simple stuff that really shouldn’t stress me out.

  • Feeling less like facing people in public.

  • Feel a lot more stressed nowadays. - Sometimes feel quite depressed. (Never had this in the past)

  • Very low sex drive… Never had much of a sex drive but it’s gotten worse and worse over the years.

  • Seem to have an issue with fruit/veg sugars. I get very sleepy why I have fruit or vegetable juices. Also 40-60g of oats in a smoothie will make me very sleepy. (carbs etc)

Other notes: My wife and I have been trying for a baby for about 8 years and we have started the IVF process. Also I seem to have very low sperm volume nowadays, which obviously does not help. The volume has really decreased a lot in the last 5 years.

Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs : No Rx drugs, have taken OTC drugs in the past such as Paracetamol and Codeine for pain relief. * Did take recreational drugs in my teens and twenties. (speed & ecstasy)

Alcohol/Cigarettes: Never smoked and drink very little alcohol nowadays. On average less than one glass beer/wine per week.

Describe diet [some create substantial damage with starvation diets]: All in all a very balanced diet with lots of fresh fruits and veggies, meats and fish. Very little fried or processed foods. ** Just started a pescatarian diet a month ago.

Describe training [some ruin their hormones by over training]: As I mentioned above, I did a lot of sport and training when I was a teenager. (13-17) I have done no training since then and the only expertise has been walking the dog every day. Though last year I started testing my joints with some weight lifting thee days a week. I did this for three months last year and it definitely helped my joints and general wellbeing. I stopped in May last year because I was travelling and then was unwell for months.

Testes ache, ever, with a fever?: Sometimes have aching testicles and they often feel ‘uncomfortable’ and kind of sensitive. Especially around the area where the join the body. (I think no fever though) They often kind of pull up towards my body and shrink in size. (Like when exposed to cold) On a number of occasions I have had strong pain in the testicles when urinating. I think this has been a UTI… * I also have a number of cysts in my testicles which have been scanned a few times to check for cancer.

How have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed: I don’t recall getting a lot of nocturnal erections over the past 10 years of so. Now and again I guess.

Note: I had a bunch of bloods done privately last year to check for food intolerances. (I thought that might be the issue then. *Only food that was really an issue was milk) The tests I had done also included other tests which I have included below for reference…

I recently managed to get my GP to send me to hospital for an adrenal short synacthen test and growth hormone function test. Unfortunately the only info my doctor gave me about the test results were that “they were in the normal range”, or “the response was in the normal range”. Not very helpful really. I have also had some private hormone tests done last October.

lab results with ranges:

October 2017 Bloods:

Hormones:

Testosterone 16 nmol/L (7.60-31.40)
Free Testosterone (Calculated) 0.357 nmol/L (0.30–1.00)
17-Beta Oestradiol 48.1 pmol/L (0.00-191.99)
SHBG 27.7 nmol/L (16.00-55.00)
Prolactin 164 mIU/L (86.00-324.00)

Just Added Below Results To Post On 06/Feb 2018)

LH - 20/dec/2017 = 5.8 iu/L (Range: 1.70-8.60 iu/L)
FSH - 20/dec/2017 = 8.8 iu/L (Range: 1.50-12.40 iu/L)


Prostate Screen: (Had this done because I was going to start HGH Therapy)

Prostate Specific AG (Total) 1.02 ug/L (0.00-2.00)
Prostate Specific AG (Free) 0.391 ug/L (0.00-0.90)
Free: Total Ratio 0.38 (0.19-1.00)

Tumour Markers: (Had this done because of my increased testicular cancer risk and because I was starting HGH Therapy)

HCG 0.2 IU/L (0.00-3.00)


August 2016 Bloods:

Hormones:

Growth Hormone < 0.1 ug/L (up to 0.8)
Estradiol < 12 ng/L (< 30)
Testosterone 5030 ng/L (3000-10000)
Androstanediol-glue 10.07 ug/L (3.4-22)
DHEA Sulfate 198 ug/dL (85-390)

Thyroid Antibodies:

Ab to thyroglobulin 16 kU/L (<60Neg)
Anti-TPO <28 kU/L (<60Neg)
Thyroglobuline 18.5 ug/L (0.7-84.0)
TRAb 0.3 U/L (0-1)
Cortisol (8h) 19.6 ug/dL (7-25)
Transcortine + 74 mg/L (20-50)
Cortisol Free (8am) - 6.4 ug/L (10-30)

Endocrinology:

TSH 2.48 mU/L (0.3-4.5)
T3 Free 5.02 pmol/L (3.23-6.47)
T4 Free 16.49 pmol/L (9.03-23.22)

Carbohydrate Metabolism:

Insulin 27.7 pmol/L (21-153)
HbA1c NGSP 5.2 % (4.0-6.0)
HbA1c IFCC 33.4 mmol/mol (20.2-42.1)

Hydro-Mineral Balance:

Sodium 139 mmol/L (135-145)
Potassium + 5.8 mmol/L (3.3-5.7)
Total Calcium 2.28 mmol/L (2.05-2.65)
Ionized Calcium 1.00 mmol/L (1.00-1.15)
Erytrocytair Magnesium 5.26 mg/dL (4.40-5.80)
25-Hydroxy -Vitamin D 37.3 ug/L (30.0-60.0)
3rd Generation PTH 29 ng/L (14-72)

Lipid Metabolism:

Triglycerides + 190 mg/dL (30-170)
Total Cholesterol + 208 mg/dL (140-200)
HDL Cholesterol 44 mg/dL (40-109)
LDL Chol.(Calculated) + 126 mg/dL (0-114)
Cholesterol/HDL-C 4.73 (2.8-4.97)

Protein Metabolism:

Total Protein 71.1 g/L (57-82)
IgA 1.26 g/L (0.80-4.06)
Ceruloplasmine 0.31 g/L (0.25-0.44)

Inflammatory Tests:

hs CRP + 1.16 mg/L (0-1.00)

Liver Tests:

Alkaline Phosphatase 189 U/L (100-300)
Gamma-GT 59 U/L (8-61)
LDH + 458 U/L (240-420)

Antioxidant Status:

Vitamin E 11.9 ug/ml (10.0-19.0)
Vitamin E/Chol 5.72 mg/g (5.4-9.2)
Vitamin A 70.4 ug/dL (43-111)
Coenzyme Q10 - 539 ug/L (670-990)
Selenium 100 ug/L (90-143)
Zinc 108 ug/dL (84-135)
Copper 113 ug/dL (86-148)
Vitamin B6 141 nmol/L (88-456)

Other Enzymes:

Amylase + 117 U/L (28-100)
Lipase 40 U/L (12-53)

Other:

Icteric Index + 1.7 (<1.6)
Hemolysis Index 9.7 (<70)

Hematology:

Haemoglobin 15.0 g/dL (13.5-18.0)
Haematocrit 45.8 % (40-54)
RBC(Erythrocytes) 5.21 106/uL (4.5-5.9)
MCV 88 fL (80-95)
MCHC 33 g/dL RBC (31-36)
MCH 29 pg/cell (27-32)
WBC(Leucocytes) 4.92 10
3/uL (3.6-11.0)

Differential Leukocyte Count:

Neutrophils 60.6 % (45-70)
Lymphocytes 29.7 % (18-49)
Monocytes 7.5 % (1-10)
Basophils 0.2 % (0-2)
Platelets Count 217 10*3/uL (150-400)
Vitamin B12 385 ng/L (300-835)
Active-B12 - 84 pmol/L (106-170)
Erythrocytaire Folate + 656 ug/L (140-628)
Ferrin 206 ug/L (50-290:opt)

Renal Function:

Uric Acid 6.1 mg/dL (3.4-7.0)
Urea 24 mg/dL (10-50)
Creatinine 0.81 mg/dL (0.70-1.30)

Blood Toxicology:

Lead <5.0 ug/dL (<25MPV=40)
Cadmium 0.16 ug/dL (0-0.4)
Mercury 0.19 ug/dL (0-1)
Nikkel <0.50 ug/L (<1.0MPV=10)

IgE Rast:

IgE - 16 kU/L (20-100)

Supplements I take: D3 10k iu and vitamin B12. (Am starting a Solgar Selenium 200ug and Solgar Kelp supplement soon) I would like to know what I can take for IR? I was considering one of the iodine tincture products on Amazon UK. Is that a good idea for IR?

Thanks,
Dan.


Low Free Cortisol, High Transcortin (CBG), Low T & Thyroid Connection?
#2

Your test may be in the “normal range” but it isn’t likely normal for “you”, that what doctors in the UK fail to understand. There are billions of people on the planet and if you were to put them in your TT range most would have symptoms. Normally when we see a guy with very low FT in relation to their TT, it’s almost always high SHBG. Your SHBG levels are ideal, not too low and not too high. This is why I say you’re low T for “you” and we know the only way FT can be low is if TT is also low.

It’s going to take great doctor to properly diagnose you and the NHS is the wrong place for that to happen, they’re just not skilled enough to understand that TT means nothing if your FT is barely above low normal. FT is what goes to work and make your "feel good’ and is what allows your muscles to grow, TT is just a reservoir for FT. I know for a fact the those NHS doctors are seeing your FT a few points above low normal threshold and say you’re fine. This is bullshit, their playing the numbers game because the government is doing everything it can to deny treatment to save money.

I’m puzzled as to why your 2016 labs for E2 show so low, this can be hell on mind, joints and muscles which is something I know well and can make low T far worse. I had super cold feet, mind and body ached constantly, it felt like death. Estrogen and testosterone are needed and affect every cell in your body, even how you think. This isn’t the first time I’ve heard NHS doctors deny lab values as it’s ammunition that can only help your case. If your FT dropped another .058 they would diagnose low T. If you were a women in menopause they would treat you, medical community doesn’t like TRT.

You need to find a private “hormone specialist”, only endo’s play these number games, hormone specialist pay attention to your symptoms and labs together.


#3

I very much appreciate you taking the time to reply to my post and for the information. You are right about the NHS and how they deal with hormone related issues in men. It’s massively frustrating for many and most never really deal with the issue and live feeling like crap. I do understand the NHS is under massive pressure and only has limited funds but it’s still very frustrating. Honestly, I have very little confidence that the docs here have the knowledge to help and that goes for private ones too. Most likely I’ll just go it alone and do as much research and testing as possible, then self medicate if that’s the route I end up going.

Interesting about the E2… Not sure about those test results to be honest. The only thing I can think that was different around the time of the second bloods was that I was self administrating a very small daily dose of test cyp sublingually for about three months 3-4 weeks before the October bloods.

When I had the bloods back in 2016 the private doctor thought I would benefit from HGH replacement therapy and said that might be one of the reasons for the constant fuzzy head and other symptoms. I just started a low daily dose of HGH and will see if anything changes in the next month or two :wink:

I’ve started taking my temperature to check if there are thyroid issues and so far the temps are a little on the low side. I missed taking the temperate when I woke up and it was done about fourty minutes after I got up. I’ll do another tomorrow but this was 96.8 and the afternoon one was 97.88.


#4

Need you to get oral body temps posted as discussed later, to evaluate overall thyroid function. There is iodized salt available there, but most shops do not carry it.

CRP is a generalized inflammatory marker.
Test again later to see if a transient event.

TSH should be closer to 1.0, 2.48 is too high, but docs will think perfect. fT3 and fT4 are nice at mid-range. If your body temperatures are low, we suspect elevated rT3 interfering with fT3. More info in the thyroid basis sticky, note terms: rT3, stress, illness, inflammation, adrenal, cortisol, adrenal fatigue, Wilson’s book.

AM cortisol is good, free cortisol appear low, but I have never seen free cortisol lab work before. If you are having stress issues, you are not in the phase where cortisol declines, which is good.

I think that your oral body temperatures will clarify your situation.

TSH gives thyroid permission to produce thyroid hormones and fT3 is the only active hormone, there are no T4 receptors. This is all part of the body’s temperature control loop. fT3 regulates mitochondrial activity which also determines your metabolic rate and energy levels. When thyroid function is low, every cell, tissue and organ system slows down. While fT3 regulates mitochondrial activity, CoQ10 produced in the liver enables and that is good.

GH should never be tested in the context of general lab work. Should be reserved for GH stimulation testing or cases where GH is suspected high. To eval general GH status, IGF-1 should always be used. GH is released in pulses and also varies with time of day. With a very short half-life, you can get very low GH lab results that are inconclusive. IGF-1 is a better measure of GH status than GH labs.

You did not discuss blows to your head that can damage the pituitary. What happened when you were 17?

Growth hormone function test may have been response to a releasing hormone or high amino acid intake. But that really does not replace the need for IGF-1 lab work.

Possible benefit from probiotics if there is an overgrowth of adverse gut flora.

Around year 2000 I found out that a co-worker was hospitalized with Scleroderma and I recalled an old report re an old antibiotic Minocycline been effective. Got info to her and her med team and it worked. Years later I met here and she introduced me to some others as the guy who saved her life. She became the ‘poster child’ for this treatment. So would be worth a trial to see if you perceive benefits.


#5

#6

@KSman - Thank you very much for taking a look at my posts and bloods. Very helpful indeed. From what you’ve said I definitely think I need to investigate a possible thyroid issue. So far my temperature has been low in the afternoon. (97.88) I will take a reading when I wake up tomorrow morning in bed and another in the afternoon.

  • I’ll purchase the adreanal fatigue book you recommended. I did have adreanal and pertuitary tests in hospital back in September. They took bloods every half hour for about four hours. The only info my GP gave me about the test results was - “the response was in the normal range” and that’s all they said. No details at all.

  • I and my parents don’t recal and major head trauma in the past. Played rugby and other sports but no big head injuries.

  • I read over the thyroid sticky again and it’s possible you are right about the elevate rT3 causing an issue. Once I’ve done the temperature checks I’ll know if it’s a good idea to get some rT3 bloods done.

  • Yes I have read that getting a IGF-1 test is best to check GH but it’s a five hour drive for me to get those labs done. I could only get the other test done unfortunately.

  • I’ll get my hands on some iodised salt online if I can’t find in the ships here.

  • I’m getting all the 2016 bloods re-done next week form my GP so will update my post one I get those results back.

  • Very interesting about the Minocycline, I will definitely need to investigate more. Sounds very exciting.

Thanks again for the help, much appreciated!


#7

Thyroid temperature results:

Morning in bed = 97.1 (Also did one a day before, 30-40 mins after I got up and was 96.8)
Afternoon = 98.2


#8

A reminder that higher dose iodine will increase TSH. That is normal, but can alarm many doctors. TSH data in that case has very little value.


#9

Thanks… So with those temperature readings would you recommend I follow your IR guidelines in the thyroid sticky? Or should I get bloods done to check rT3 first?

  • I’m half way though reading the adrenal fatigue book you recommended. So far reading that, it sounds like I may well have some issues there to deal with.

  • What are your thoughts on my testosterone bloods/symptoms?

  • Any recommendations for the IR? I’m UK based and have seen those iodine tinctures and regular supplements. Not sure what’s best to be honest.


#10

These include…

•Very fuzzy head. I find it very hard to think straight most of the time and it seems to be getting worse and worse over the last five years or so.

•Very spaced out feeling a lot of the time.

•Find it hard to concentrate. - Tired a lot of the time even with good sleep. I normally wake up feeling more tired than I did when I went to bed.

•Feel way more emotional that I ever did. Often get teary eyed watching silly stuff on TV.

•Memory is very poor. Doesn’t help that my head is so fuzzy!

•Often feel I cannot cope doing simple stuff that really shouldn’t stress me out.

•Feeling less like facing people in public.

•Feel a lot more stressed nowadays. - Sometimes feel quite depressed. (Never had this in the past)

•Very low sex drive… Never had much of a sex drive but it’s gotten worse and worse over the years.

•Seem to have an issue with fruit/veg sugars. I get very sleepy why I have fruit or vegetable juices. Also 40-60g of oats in a smoothie will make me very sleepy. (carbs etc)

I get pretty much all of those issues also, and the testical thing you mentioned I also get that. I can sit infront of a heater and they will look normal, soon as that heat is taken away and my body gets cold they retract quite a distant back as if they had never dropped which worries me a lot, had no tests done but really want them doing but my doctors are full of sh*t and so was my endocrine. I have gyno also. My test results was 8.4nmol/l, 10.1nmol/l and 14.2nmol/l and haven’t got any higher since. I am 26. I think your issues are the answers to my problems.


#11

Im sure a lot of people like you have similar symptoms as me. Looks like a common issue nowadays. I would definitely recommend getting more bloods done and starting your own post here so other members can take a look and advise on what action to take next (:


#12

If your iodine intake was low and you have been functionally deficient, it makes sense to see how your body responds with more iodine+selenium. That been said, if adrenal fatigue, more T4 means more T4–>rT3. One could test that or wait and then suspect that if IR will not increase temperatures and quality of life. These are things that you need to decide for yourself.


#13

Okay thanks @KSman… Gonna go with the IR for now and see how that helps (;


#14

@KSman

Latest Update & Blood Test Results: Feedback Appreciated :slightly_smiling_face:

Since my last post I went ahead and monitored my temperature morning before getting out of bed and mid afternoon.

Morning = never above 97.3 (Ranged from 97.1-97.3)
Afternoon = never above 98.3 (Ranged from 98.1-98.3)

So I did iodine replenishment at 50mg a day for 14 days with idoral supplement. From the 21dec - 3rd Jan.

Results: Temperature after iodine replenishment = No increase in temperature

I have also been to my GP and had some more bloods done, Plus did others myself as my GP would not do them. (* New bloods listed below with older results so they can easily be compared)

Other notes:

I have been taking growth hormone for the last 6 weeks… 3iu a day.

—————————

Latest test results. (I’ve also added the older ones for reference)

Thyroid:

TSH - 03/aug/2016 = 2.48 mU/L (Range: 0.27 - 4.20 mU/L)
TSH - 20/dec/2017 = 3.07 mU/L
TSH - 15/jan/2018 = 4.20 mU/L

Ft4 - 03/aug/2016 = 16.49 pmol/L (Range: 12.00 - 22.00 pmol/L)
Ft4 - 20/dec/2017 = 16.50 pmol/L
Ft4 - 15/jan/2018 = 13.50 pmol/L

Ft3 - 03/aug/2016 = 5.02 pmol/L (Range: 3.10 - 6.80 pmol/L)
Ft3 - 15/jan/2018 = 5.91 pmol/L

Rt3 - 15/jan/2018 = 15.00 ng/dL (Range: 10.00 - 24.00 ng/dL)

Rt3 Ratio - 25.65 (Range: 15.01 - 75.00)

Testosterone:

Total Test - 03/aug/2016 = 15.9 nmol/L (Range: 9.00 - 31.00 nmol/L)
Total Test - 24/oct/2017 = 16 nmol/L
Total Test - 20/dec/2017 = 13.9 nmol/L
Total Test - 15/jan/2018 = 11.1 nmol/L

Free Test - 24/oct/2017 = 0.357 nmol/L (Range: 0.30 - 1.00 nmol/L)
Free Test - 15/jan/2018 = 0.241 nmol/L

17-Beta Oestradiol - 03/aug/2016 = 26.9 pmol/L (Range: 0.00 - 191.99 pmol/L)
17-Beta Oestradiol - 24/oct/2017 = 48.1 pmol/L
17-Beta Oestradiol - 15/jan/2018 = 21.5 pmol/L

SHBG - 24/oct/2017 = 27.7 nmol/L (Range: 16.00 - 55.00 nmol/L)
SHBG - 15/jan/2018 = 28.7 nmol/L

Prolactin - 24/oct/2017 = 164 mIU/L (Range: 86.00 - 324.00 mIU/L)
Prolactin - 20/dec/2017 = 319 mIU/L
Prolactin - 15/jan/2018 = 208 mIU/L

*Just Added Below Results To Post On 06/Feb 2018

LH - 20/dec/2017 = 5.8 iu/L (Range: 1.70-8.60 iu/L)
FSH - 20/dec/2017 = 8.8 iu/L (Range: 1.50-12.40 iu/L)

Other Bloods Of Interest

Amylase - 03/aug/2016 = 117 U/L (Range: <100.00 U/L)
Amylase - 20/dec/2017 = 120 U/L

Bilirubin - 20/dec/2017 = 26umol/L (Range: <21.00 umol/L)

Serum Cholesterol - 03/aug/2016 = 208 mg/dL (Range: 140-200 mg/dL)
Serum Cholesterol - 20/dec/2017 = 5.6 mmol/L (Range: <5.00 mmol/L)

———————

I have an appointment with an NHS endo on Monday and am trying to prepare for that. I would very much appreciate any feedback on my situation. So if anyone has some pointers that would be a great help .


#15

I hope your endo understands how dangerous low E2 really is for bone and brain health, on our scale your E2 is 5 pg/ml, any lower and it would be zero. I’m sorry I can’t provide any words of encouragement as NHS endo’s are the worst and endo’s in general are the worst doctors out there, be prepared to go private for TRT as the NHS TRT protocols are worse than being low T.

God forbid your doctor tell you your T levels are fine because you have facial hair or that you have muscles so your T is fine. I hear horror stories everyday from the UK on NHS doctors.


#16

Thanks very much for replying @systemlord… I thought my E2 was low but didn’t realise it was that low! It’s bloody confusing having diffent lab ranges depending on where you live in the world. My results are ‘within the normal rage’ which as we all know here does not mean a whole lot if your feeling like absolute shit and can’t function properly.

I forgot to post about how bad my joint pain has become in the last few weeks. And also a lot more emotional, finding myself blubbing watching random stuff in TV…Plus my brain is so fuzzy, I’m struggle to get any work done. My head is wrecked.

Not expecting much joy with the NHS Endo but I am desperate. Can’t carry on like this much longer. So if they do not help I will just self administer TRT. Only issue is my wife and I who have been trying for a baby for about 10 years have just got the go ahead for IVF on the NHS. I’m worried I will screw up out chances with IVF if I start TRT.


#17

NHS Endo Apointment Update:

Okay got back from my NHS Endo apointment a few hours ago. I honestly was not expecting much joy after reading all the horror stories here…

So not surprises that the endo said some questionable stuff related to my bloods and symptoms, but still very frustrating nevertheless.

Some of the highlights of my meeting -

Me: My E2 seems very low and I’ve been having a lot of pain in my joints and the brain fog is getting worse.

Doctor: E2 is a woman’s hormone, you don’t need to worry about it. And anyway yours is not very low anyway so forget about it.

Me: Really??? Men also have E2 and is low E2 not dangerous for brain and bone health? and does low E2 not make you feel like crap? Because my Free T and E2 are low and I feel just terrible.

Doctor: Your T levels are borderline at best and you are not fat so you have nothing to worry about. Forget about E2 it’s not an issue.

Me: Well my research seems to contradict what you just said and E2 plays an important part in hormone health.

Anyway he said I could try TRT but it most likely won’t make any difference because I already have testosterone. But I could try it and see. Issue is it will make me infertile. I asked if they prescribed HCG to help with fertility and stop the shutdown of the testes and he said they did not use it and it does not work.


#18

I warned you this would happen, you doctor is making statements that are common knowledge. You can’t reason with an unreasonable person, you could argue that the sky is blue and they will come back with no it’s bluish gray.

The reality is if doctors in the USA learn nothing about TRT in medical school how are your doctors going to be any different? Usually when doctors have no idea one way or the other, just to sound like they know what they’re talking about they will say the most ridiculous things because the desire to sound smart when they’re not.

I stress you need to go private or you risk certain doom with E2 that low!


#19

Yes you did warn me and honestly I was expecting him to come out with this type of rubbish… I just find it crazy these guys are allowed to get away with saying these things. 99% of patients will take whatever these guys say as gospel and go on with their lives feeling like zombie and never get help.

Anyway, next step is to go private as you already recommended. Are there any recommendations for private docs in the UK that can deal with both testosterone and thyroid issues?


#20

Okay bit of an update… Would really appreciate some feedback if possible (;

Decided not to go down the clomid route because after seeing the endo he scheduled more bloods and I didnt want to mess with my baseline blood results. He wanted to double check bloods before he would give the go ahead to try TRT.

Anyway, latest March 06 bloods results below - (*No Free Testosterone tested as bloods were done via NHS)

Total Test - 06/march/2018 = 14.4 nmol/L (Range: 9.00 - 31.00 nmol/L)
LH - 06/march/2018 = 5.5 iu/L (Range: 1.70-8.60 iu/L)
FSH - 06/march/2018 = 7.6 iu/L (Range: 1.50-12.40 iu/L)
SHBG - 06/march/2018 = 33.0 nmol/L (Range: 16.00 - 55.00 nmol/L)

So I decided to take some positive action and start self medication. Right or wrong, I would rather be in control of my own healthcare to a certain point. And I’m still juggling my NHS GP and Endo to help. They still might prescribe TRT on the NHS, but I’m not going to wait for months and months on the off chance they will. If they do and if I can persuade them to allow me to follow my own protocol with Sustanon or Test E then that’s a bonus.

From what others have said on this forum and from my own research it’s looking like I might be primary hypogonal with the raised LH and low Free T… Also taking into consideration I had undecended Testicles that does make sense.

My protocol:

Two 50mg Test E Sub Q injections a week and 250iu HCG EOD… No AI because my E2 is very low and don’t want to make things even worse. Would rather try and keep E2 under control by reducing the mg of test I take a week. I’ve read that taking adex can cause major issues with arthritis which I already have and don’t want to make even worse.

I understand that if I am primary taking HCG will most likely not do much in the way of helping raise testosterone levels, but I’d like to guard against testicular atrophy and keep some fertility is possible.

Would love some feedback about the benefits of taking HCG if primary? If there are any that is :slight_smile:

Thanks.