Australian Gitmo Detainee Convicted

[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
karva wrote:
Why doesn’t the sentence in any way reflect his crime, then?

Because politics is an dirty business.

LOL! Is that the best you can do?

[/quote]

Are you guys really this naive?

The guy is being let go because they don’t think he will do further harm. He will be tracked. The people he comes in contact with will be tracked.

His guilty plea, short sentence and release appeases certain elements.

He does not deserve to see the light of day but because he was born in Australia he is getting allowances he does not deserve.

Politics is a dirty business.

[quote]karva wrote:

Why doesn’t the sentence in any way reflect his crime, then? [/quote]

  1. Not every fighter picked up by the US is given the max penalty (whatever that may be). Some will never be convicted. In fact, a number of foreign fighters have been repatriated after swearing oaths (signed/stated)they won’t take up arms against the US again. Some have broken these agreements and have been recaptured on the battlefields, and some have not. Not all prisoners will be held to the very end of hostilities. Or, even convicted and punished. It’s happened throughout many of our wars, if not all.

  2. Probably had something to do with diplomacy between the US and Australia, also.

In the end, this guy wasn’t a big fish. He was a common foot ‘soldier,’ basically. It was a mixture of that, a judgment considering his intent if released soon, and diplomacy with Australia that led to this.

As far as who and what he was, there’s not doubt.

[quote]BH6 wrote:
So we took a terrorist out of the fight for five years, squeezed all of the intelligence information we could out of him, got him convicted and put into jail for nearly another year, and have made his name public so that he will never be able to work covertly with another terrorist group, and somehow we screwed up?

[/quote]

The issue for me is torture. I don’t know if Hicks was or wasn’t, but the gag order doesn’t exactly raise hopes.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Some will never be convicted. [/quote]

A more accurate assertion at this point is “Only one has been convicted”.

That’s a point Brad61 made, in case you missed it.

Okay, there are some problems with the various stories being suggested here…

  1. These people were such bad mofo’s it was “okay” to severely mistreat them.

  2. Terrorists deserve to die and must be killed.

  3. Ah fuck it, he won’t do no harm anymore, let’s release him so our pal in Australia has a chance to win reelection.

So, once again, we see that reality is different than the story that was originally being told to us by various people.

Now, it’s funny that Headhunter, usually clamoring for the death of terrorists, is waiting to blame liberals for this release, when the sitting administration cut the deal.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Some will never be convicted.

A more accurate assertion at this point is “Only one has been convicted”.

That’s a point Brad61 made, in case you missed it.[/quote]

Compared to ‘trials’ done to Americans in Iraq (courtesy of a hand saw), I’d say the prick got off easily. I really don’t know why there are trials anyway —these guys are not criminals in the usual sense. They’re Taliban fighters! Kill 'em all!!!

Imagine putting a Nazi on trial and giving him a slap on the wrist like this! All because of the lib media and such, like Rosie O’Donnell.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Okay, there are some problems with the various stories being suggested here…

  1. These people were such bad mofo’s it was “okay” to severely mistreat them.

  2. Terrorists deserve to die and must be killed.

  3. Ah fuck it, he won’t do no harm anymore, let’s release him so our pal in Australia has a chance to win reelection.

So, once again, we see that reality is different than the story that was originally being told to us by various people.

Now, it’s funny that Headhunter, usually clamoring for the death of terrorists, is waiting to blame liberals for this release, when the sitting administration cut the deal.[/quote]

Bush is a lib. He’s a pushover, which is one reason why the people here voted for a change. They hoped to get someone who wasn’t a rodent-man: they got Harry Reid, Murtha, Howard Dean, and other such rodents.

They also got Nancy the Rodent, who blocked a House resolution condemning the taking of the Brits by the Iranians. They’re all fucking rodents…

The best thing for this country would be to set up a steroid injection clinic right inside Congress. All men get 600 mg/week of Cyp along with a low dose Arimidex. Women get Andriol or some other mild 'roid. Bring on the Test!!!

[quote]
Are you people arguing that he should have served life? Been executed? What sentence would you have liked? There is no question of his guilt.[/quote]

No, the point is that once again, the White House’s inflammatory rhetoric doesn’t seem to have any basis in reality. For 5 years we’ve heard that Gitmo detainees are “the worst of the worst” and that’s why these prisoners can’t see lawyers, why their names can’t be released, why they are held without charges, and why it’s okay to deny them their rights to humane treatment under the Geneva Conventions.

But when Bush’s Justice Department finally convicts their first prisoner, they give him a slap on the wrist. The sentence doesn’t match the rhetoric-- any sensible person can see that.

Just another example of why Bush/Cheney have lost their credibility with a lot of people.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Imagine putting a Nazi on trial and giving him a slap on the wrist like this! All because of the lib media and such, like Rosie O’Donnell.
[/quote]

It has nothing to do with liberals, it has to do with an election in Australia. It’s just another example of principles for sale.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Some will never be convicted.

A more accurate assertion at this point is “Only one has been convicted”.

That’s a point Brad61 made, in case you missed it.[/quote]

You don’t have to convict enemy combatants unless you’ve decided to charge them. In fact, as long as they aren’t charged with a crime, they could be held until all hostilities cease. Convicting an enemy combatant is an entirely different thing then just detaining them. One is a punitive measure, and the other is to keep one more trigger finger off the battlefield. You do realize that holding prisoners is the alternative to shooting them on the battlefield, right? It’s not new.

[quote]Brad61 wrote:

Are you people arguing that he should have served life? Been executed? What sentence would you have liked? There is no question of his guilt.

No, the point is that once again, the White House’s inflammatory rhetoric doesn’t seem to have any basis in reality. For 5 years we’ve heard that Gitmo detainees are “the worst of the worst” and that’s why these prisoners can’t see lawyers, why their names can’t be released, why they are held without charges, and why it’s okay to deny them their rights to humane treatment under the Geneva Conventions.

But when Bush’s Justice Department finally convicts their first prisoner, they give him a slap on the wrist. The sentence doesn’t match the rhetoric-- any sensible person can see that.

Just another example of why Bush/Cheney have lost their credibility with a lot of people.

[/quote]

What exactly are you arguing? That he should be detained for several more years?

So Vroom, Brad, etc., are you guys wanting to seem him serve a longer term? Death penalty? There’s no doubt he’s guilty of what he’s accused of, so what should be done with him?

By the way, we’ve released even more enemy combatants than just this guy, without even charging them. Hell, like I said, some have even been recaptured fighting our troops again. Repatriation is not something new in wars. And, since we’re talking about our friends the Australians, I think the guy caught a real lucky break, along with the others we’ve released.

I didn’t realize you guys supported very long detainments. Hey, I’m with you there. He should rot in a cell for the rest of his life. Heck, he, and all the other non uniformed combatants should face a firing squad. Roosevelt knew how to handle those fighting without uniform, or at least some sort of clearly visible military insignia. Curious as to what you think should happen to the guy.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
So Vroom, Brad, etc., are you guys wanting to seem him serve a longer term? Death penalty? There’s no doubt he’s guilty of what he’s accused of, so what should be done with him?[/quote]

Sloth, I’m for integrity in government. I know that is a foreign concept these days, but this just goes to show how little integrity there is.

If the guy is/was a danger, then he should not be released. Basically, there is no need to release enemy combatants, just to treat them reasonably well for the duration of the war.

It’s only a complex situation if you are jumping through hoops trying to justify the administrations actions along the way…

Ah, well, I’m with ya. I wouldn’t release any enemy combatants, at all. Didn’t realize you took such a tough stance on it though.

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:

The issue for me is torture. I don’t know if Hicks was or wasn’t, but the gag order doesn’t exactly raise hopes.[/quote]

The newspapers in Australia today are reporting the the gag order will not be valid in Australia because we dont have any laws preventing Hicks from talking to the media.

THE gag on David Hicks speaking to the media for 12 months would not be enforceable in Australia, the Attorney-General, Philip Ruddock, admitted last night.

Mr Ruddock said Australia had no law making it a crime for Hicks to talk, and the United States would be able to act on a breach only if Hicks came “within their reach”.

However, in an interview with the Herald earlier yesterday, Mr Ruddock had said the order preventing Hicks, his family, friends and associates from telling his story was reasonable and enforceable. “What that’s suggesting is that the agreement can’t be avoided by telling [the story] to a family member and then they say it on his behalf,” he said.

Mr Ruddock said the extraordinary condition had nothing to do with the Federal Government. “It’s their agreement,” he said. “I didn’t seek it. The Australian Government didn’t seek it.”

Mr Ruddock said he expected the order to be enforced in Australia because it was agreed by the parties in the plea bargain and that agreement was the basis for Hicks being sent home.

But later, speaking on the ABC’s Lateline he said that for Australia to agree to an extradition, a charge similar to the one laid overseas must exist under Australian law. “In Australia, we have a position about freedom of speech.”

Asked if the gag order meant nothing, and Hicks would be able to speak to the media, Mr Ruddock responded: “I suspect you are probably right”.

Mr Ruddock said the US included the clause in the plea bargain and it was a matter for the US, Hicks, his prosecutors and his counsel. “I don’t think it’s a matter for us to enforce,” he said.

The Australian authorities could act if Hicks tried to profit directly or indirectly by selling his story, under proceeds of crime legislation.

Hicks’s military lawyer, Major Michael Mori, had suggested that if Hicks breached any of the conditions in the plea bargain - such as by speaking to the media - he could be returned to Guantanamo Bay to serve the entire seven-year sentence, which is to be suspended after the nine months.

Major Mori told the ABC: “He could potentially be brought back to Guantanamo to serve it. I hope that doesn’t happen. I hope the media respects that he’s under oath, under obligation not to talk to media, and they don’t try to set him up for failure.”

But Major Mori said the condition of silence might be a blessing. “I do think that David needs a period of time to get back to Australia, to decompress from this whole situation, get back in touch with his family, get back into his education, finish his high school qualifications, without the media harassing him,” he told the ABC’s 7.30 Report.

Hicks’s father, Terry, has expressed his outrage that the gag order extends to him, and constitutional law experts have said that it breaches Australia’s fundamental guarantees of free political discussion

[quote]Helga wrote:
…“In Australia, we have a position about freedom of speech.”[/quote]

Hehehehe.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Helga wrote:
…“In Australia, we have a position about freedom of speech.”

Hehehehe.

[/quote]

So do Canadians - I believe it’s: “we believe in freedom of speech, we’re just not fanatics about it.”

[quote]vroom wrote:
Helga wrote:
…“In Australia, we have a position about freedom of speech.”

Hehehehe.

[/quote]

Is anyone really surprised that our politicians say the same kind of shit as yours do?

[quote]Sloth wrote:
So Vroom, Brad, etc., are you guys wanting to seem him serve a longer term? Death penalty? There’s no doubt he’s guilty of what he’s accused of, so what should be done with him? [/quote]

If there’s no doubt that he’s guilty, then the punishment should fit the crime. That should be obvious.

He was convicted of providing material support to terrorists. His sentence was 9 months.

The point (again, for you slow readers) is that the reality (once again) does not match up with the inflated rheoric from Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, etc.

The “worst of the worst” and one of the ‘most dangerous’ people in the world gets a 9 month sentence.

You asked me what do I want… do I want him to get a longer sentence? Do I want him executed on the battlefield?

What I want first and foremost, is leadership in the White House that is not full of bullshit.

[quote]Brad61 wrote:
He was convicted of providing material support to terrorists. His sentence was 9 months.
[/quote]

Please correct me if I am wrong on this one but I think the sentence was 7 years, but including ‘time already served’ he has an additional 9 months to serve.

I am not trying to say that 7 years is an appropriate sentence, but just wanting to make sure that we are all arguing on correct information here and happy to be corrected if I am wrong.