T Nation

Aussies: "My Health Record" - An Issue?


#21

Is that you Scott Morison?


#22

Guess its a matter of who you know.


#23

So, do the lockout laws prevent people from going into clubs or do they kick everyone out past 2AM. Either way it’s ridiculous, they’re killing fun, what’s next, entire clubs being shut down (I believe this is already happening)

So, I have mixed opinions on this, I have no issue with certain drugs being legal, especially ones that harm no one other than the user, which is most of them, however drugs like methamphetamine can cause paranoia and violent outbursts in some. Individuals with meth induced psychosis have the possibility of causing harm to others (marijuana/ hallucinogen induced psychosis is different, typically it’s self-harm and paranoia, not violent outbursts, however most meth addicts aren’t violent, I believe meth tends to exacerbate personality traits, so if a violent asshole starts using meth it’s more likely to be an issue). I’m not against recreational drug use, I’d be a hypocrite if I was (anabolic steroid abuse can be thought of as a form of recreational drug use), but I do think that responsible use of test, most injectables and orals is a hell of a lot safer than using cocaine, crack, meth, heroin and other opiates etc, short term complications with opiates are profound respiratory depression potentially leading to death due to organs failing to function, impaired motor coordination skills (driving), other stuff, long term complications being hypogonadism (except for tapentadol, this specific opiate seems to not cause hypogonadism), osteoporosis, opiate induced immunosuppression, neurotoxicity from prolonged very high doses. IV opiates can lead to injection site infections, collapsed veins etc, although these aren’t particularly likely to happen, HIV can be transmitted through needle sharing. Methamphetamine in the short term can cause psychosis, and legitimate violent outbursts, it also tends to make the user quite strong, which can be an issue if one is having a paranoid episode, other issues short term are loss of appetite leading to weight loss, tachycardia accompanied by a potentially irregular heartbeat, increased blood pressure. Long term complications aside from addiction are neurotoxicity, cardiotoxicity, meth mouth (crystal meth, taking methamphetamine in pill form isn’t going to cause this), skin scarring etc. Then there’s the issue of withdrawals from coming off the drugs, this tends to be what makes people dangerous far more than the drug use itself, people coming off hard drugs will sometimes steal, hurt, rob others etc and generally do whatever they can to get the resources for the next hit, which is an issue because it can make a person do things they’d otherwise never do. Don’t get me wrong, AAS are rifle with complications too, short term complications of anabolic steroid use are typically limited to adverse injection site reactions, medium term effects like gyn (depending on which AAS is taken), acne, shrunken testis, liver strain/damage from C17AA anabolics and like recreational drugs the extent to which a person will be harmed/ feel side effects is largely genetic. Long term complications are cardiotoxicity (hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, cardiac dysfunction, potential neurotoxicity from extremely extremely high doses, impaired fertility and whatnot) It is very likely the cardiotoxic effect of intermittent to regular cocaine and methamphetamine use and the neurotoxicity of meth is far, FAR worse than 99% of anabolic steroids. Another difference between recreational drug users and responsible AAS users (many aren’t responsible and use insane doses for very long periods of time and are either ignorant, unaware or just don’t care about the potential risks) is the fact that many who use anabolic steroids are trying to better themselves, they live a very healthy lifestyle with a good diet, get frequent aerobic and anaerobic exercise with weight training, cardio etc, people don’t really take AAS to get high. Many recreational drug users use drugs to get fucked up, and some do it often, many don’t live very healthy lifestyles, have poor diets etc, which one is worse. When it really gets bad is when people have a shitty diet, lifestyle, take anabolic steroids AND partake in frequent use of hard drugs (coke, meth etc) using coke, drinking frequently, taking steroids and having a shit diet is like begging on the street, but instead of begging for money, you’re begging for cardiovascular disease… although somehow some people manage to get away with this kind of lifestyle (Hulk Hogan), I’ve come to believe that for the vast majority the human body can handle a surprising amount of abuse.

MDMA is a toughie, short term it appears to be relatively safe, however it’s implication in long term neurotoxicity and potential cardiotoxicity is concerning, it’s possible MDMA is far more harmful than I previously thought it was (not I’ve never taken MDMA), however for a one off it appears to be surprisingly safe given you aren’t on any SSRI related compounds. Also, MDMA stands for methylenedioxymethamphetamine. Deaths attributed to MDMA are typically linked to the product not being MDMA, overdoses, or people using, getting dehydrated while raving in a hot environment, compared to meth, opiates, coke and whatnot though I don’t believe MDMA is nearly as dangerous as other hard drugs. I’ve never used it and never will, I don’t take psychoactive drugs (tried weed before once though)

That being said legalizing drugs would hit gangs, mafia, and other organised crime syndicates hard, I mean there will def be a black market for drugs as they will probs be cheaper than government grade stuff but a huge source of income will be taken away from organised crime, gang warefare rates over the world will probably go down, people won’t be arrested for something stupid like a joint or a vial of test or put in jail for stupid reasons like that either, this freeing up valuable resources for the police to go catch people who are actually hurting people (like serial killers, child porn producers, rapists etc) instead of worrying about a dude with some testosterone or a guy with a tablet or two of MDMA for personal use.

Note I don’t condone illicit drug use, I don’t have an issue with it, but I don’t partake in it, nor do I think it’s a good choice to be making (esp with hard drugs), however it’s all individual, some people with less addictive personalities and good genes can get away with it, others get hooked. Everyone has vices, some people have more extreme vices than others, I think there’s probably a genetic component as to how likely one is to use drugs, as some people just seem to be drawn into the idea of using illicit drugs.


#24

I didn’t read all of that, but a few thoughts:

I don’t have a problem with someone choosing to do something dangerous/unhealthy as long as they understand it. There needs to be realistic education about all drugs.

Regarding danger to others, I don’t like that argument. At the end of the day the individual is responsible for their actions, not the drug/vehicle/music festival etc. Hunger makes some people raging mad, as does lack of sleep, road rage etc. Poverty, poor upbringing etc. often lead to crime. Legalising drugs would result in higher purety=safer, proper education=safer, and less need for filthy drugs like Meth. There is a reason Meth and crappy “ecstacy” are so prominent in Aus, where things like pure coke and pure molly are almost unheard of (and cost a fortune). Just look at why krokodil came about.

One of the most dangerous things a person can do is climb Mount Everest. So many people have died climbing it. Yet it’s not illegal, and even seen as an outstanding achievement for those who do it and don’t die. Someone successfully making it through a level 5 mushroom trip however, is seen as a hippy druggie loser, usually by people who have never experienced it.

Far more likely to die from a car accident than drugs. Nobody is trying to ban cars.

I just think, if me and 10 other people were trapped on a desert island, nobody would be trying to tell others they’re not allowed to eat “those” mushrooms or smoke “that” plant. Why is it any different in our society? Perhaps I’m naive or idealistic.

There is a reason getting decent trt in aus is a nightmare…


#25

2am you get locked in, if you leave you get locked out. Lots of clubs and pubs have shut down as they went out of business. [quote=“unreal24278, post:23, topic:247504”]
methamphetamine can cause paranoia and violent outbursts in some. Individuals with meth induced psychosis
[/quote]

I do and dont agree, because its just like saying some people are epileptic so Sony cant make the playstation.

If you have ever smoked buds from Amsterdam its cleaner than anywhere i have ever smoked buds from. When shit is legal, shit is clean.

Whilst you have focused on quite a lot of the negatives, now you’re focusing on a positive. If a substance is controlled and clean then the above issue would be greatly reduced.

For instance, if you were only able to procure if you were in a stable job. This would assist in preventing the junkies on the street geting their hands on their substances of choice. It would be see as a reward for your hard work.

Exactly right. We as humans have had decisions taken away from us. And this was the main topic before it went off track

Depending on your source and what you’re willing to pay.


#26

@xevox @smoothest_criminal
Yeet we all have our different opinions, it’s interesting to share them, my experience with drugs is limited, I know a lot of people who use them, but I don’t use them myself, and it will stay that way as I have no intention of using illicit drugs, however that’s my personal choice, and I don’t judge others who decide to use so long as they don’t harm others.

Well, being trapped on a desert island is a critical situation where people have bigger shit to worry about than stopping someone from rolling a joint etc. Not idealistic or naieve, it’s just an unrealistic situation. However the situation does apply in that law enforcement should be worrying about bigger shit than a guy taking smokimg some weed

I have more positives and negatives

Positives

  • the chance of overdoses from spiked drugs (fentanyl laced heroin etc) is taken away with regulated drugs
  • good source of tax for the government, could be a multi billion dollar industry
  • scheduling these substances as legal allows better studying of the drugs with regards to short and long term effects, a lot of what we know about illicit drugs is speculation based on anecdotal reports because people can’t study them properly.

Negatives

  • people who previously didn’t use drugs might be enticed to try them due to the legal status
  • I listed a lot of negatives in the previous answer

My opinion overall isn’t changed, while I think most drugs would benefit from being legalised, some (methamphetamine, bath salts etc) shouldn’t be legal.

As to the humans having the right to make their own decisions. I do agree to an extent, humans should be able to make their own decisions so long as it only harms themselves, humans shouldnt be able to murder another individual, or step behind the wheel piss drunk, because they could kill someone.

Can’t say I have lol I’ve only tried it once, don’t see it happening again in the foreseeable future.


#27

I agree, i think thats the great thing in life, peoples differing opinions and the ability to share, discuss, without turning in to a shit fight like a lot of these discussions turn in to.

Good work bois


#28

Exactly, more and more these days I see these kinds of discussions turning into personal attacks with people doing whatever it takes to be right and win the argument. One thing we can all agree on is that we are lucky to have access to and live in a place that is diverse and where we are allowed to voice different opinions (for now at least). Go team for respecting each others opinions, even though we totally derailed OP’s thread.


#29

If we cant have threads getting derailed on the daily it would be pretty boring on tnation.