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Atrial Fibrillation and Gear

2 years ago a friend of mine had an atrial fibrillation (irregular heart beat 230bpm). This was rectified by stopping and then starting his heart again with an electric pulse. Now he has to stay away fom any stimulants such as caffeine, alcohol and gear. AF is caused by a lack of potassium. What steroids are potassium sparing and would he be ok to use these? Also, if no steroids would be allowed then could he use HGH?

Steroids don’t cause atrial fib. It was the stimulents he used.

Please could you explain as to where you get your information from and your experience with this subject. regards

From my understanding p-22 is a nurse… so im pretty sure hes qualified to say it shouldnt be a problem.

[quote]chunkymonkey wrote:
Please could you explain as to where you get your information from and your experience with this subject. regards[/quote]

Here is some anecdotal information for you: Out of 3 friends and myself. I have used steroids quite heavily but very little stimulants and never had any heart abnormalties.
I have one friend who used ECA heavily but no steroids, and has arythmias, One friend who used ECA heavily with a small amount of steroids, and had a heart attack in the Gym while doing heavy bench press (he hadn’t been on steroids for years but was using ECA heavily), and I have another friend who used both steroids, and stimulants quite heavily. He also has had heart arythmias - which have subsided since he stopped using stimulants of any kind.

It is quite clear that Stimulants will cause problems with your heart, and they were banned for good reason, Steroids are usually automatically blammed for everything including the common cold, by most Medical Doctors, but there cause of heart irregularities, as well as other conditions in 60+ years of study has yet to be linked.

Atrial fibrillation isn’t just caused by low potassium.

The one potential problem that comes to mind with steroids would be from increased RBC production. If his blood became thicker due to increased erythropoiesis, it would place a greater load on the heart. Many patients with AF are placed on a blood thinner such as warfarin.

I would suggest that he increase Mg as it has been shown to be beneficial in many AF cases. Also, fish oils (3-6g/day) have had a positive effect in many studies as well.

With regards to using steroids, I guess he would have to weigh benefit/risks. If he chose to use them, he should at least try to use one that has less RBC boosting properties. As I’m not the expert in that area, I’ll leave the suggestions up to those who are.

Take care,

Ryan

Steroids and such are a game for normally healthy individuals. I wouldn’t mess with any of it. Some drugs may be fine for him to take, but why risk it? Just to be bigger? He seems a good candidate for heart problems later in life. He should probably stay clean.
If he does want to fuck up his heart, have him shoot prostoglandins directly in to the heart tissue.
I’m sorry that was mean.

Thrombocytopenia - due to steroid use, is easily cured by donating blood.
The steroids most known for this phenomenon are;

Anadrol
Winstrol
Equipoise

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[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
Thrombocytopenia - due to steroid use, is easily cured by donating blood.
The steroids most known for this phenomenon are;

[/quote]

How often should This be done? Also, at what times should this be done Pre,during, or Post cycle? I will be using both Winstrol and EQ at one point or another during the year, so this info concerns me. Thank you.

Prisoner-22

I think you meant polycythemia not thrombocytopenia (low platelets).

Take care,

Ryan

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oops my bad!

[quote]Dr. Ryan wrote:
Prisoner-22

I think you meant polycythemia not thrombocytopenia (low platelets).

Take care,

Ryan[/quote]

Guys,
As a healthy 28 year old male, I have AF. Too much ephedrine brought on the first time, than the next three times were from alcohol. Stress also puts me in AF. I sustain from all, not a drop of alcohol or caffeine, and I try to minimize stress. I still experience a lot of PAC’s,(pre-mature atrial contractions) and have gone into AF 1 time out of the blue, no stimulants or alcohol involved. It is genetic, my father passed it on to me.

I was taking a beta blocker, but now I am trying a new drug called flecanide, which is an arrymithyia med. So far, so good. To answer the gear question, I was off for three years, but did 1 heavy three month cycle after my last AF episode. I was hittinhg well over 1000mg’s of test a week, with some clean anabolics added, total 1400-1600 mgs weekly. I had no adverse affects and my cardiologist said that steroids most likely did not contribute to any AF. My left ventricular wall is mildly hypertrophied, but with any veteran lifter, this is usually the case. I told him I couldn’t promise that I would not chem again, and he was not very concerned with that fact.

I can tell you this, AF is just a nuisance, it is not life threatening. It does not lead to V-fib, so worst case is a cardizem drip for me, for others it is a shock. I am not saying this is an acceptable risk, but just the facts of my life. Many times I just waited out the AF case, as my heart was not in tachycardia.

Once a juicer, that itch is always there. When I cycle, I stay between 6-8 weeks now, and I do lots of cardio.

For Dr. Ryan, you said patients are responding well to Magnesium? At what dose please?

[quote]Dr. Ryan wrote:

The one potential problem that comes to mind with steroids would be from increased RBC production. If his blood became thicker due to increased erythropoiesis, it would place a greater load on the heart. Many patients with AF are placed on a blood thinner such as warfarin.

Take care,

Ryan[/quote]

In response, if you are on a blood thinner, like Kumatin, yes I agree. Many AF patients are on this to prevent clotting in the heart. If you are in AF for less than 24 hours, this is usually not a risk.

The heart having to pump harder should not put you in AF however. AF is simply a rapid firing from the aortic chamber, and they are not associated. It would not hurt to take a baby aspirin daily to thin the blood as well. If this were true, we would be going into AF from cardio, because the heart works ridiculously hard then, right?

If you are in habitual AF, avoid the chems. One isolated episode two years ago is a different story.

Eblation is another choice, where they basically map the hearts electrophysiology and find where the AF originates, and they cauterize it.

Not a doc, so hopefully I did not make a mistake. I am just an educated patient who has been haunted by this nuisance of AF.

As a side not, Equipoise seemed to give me the most PAC’s, and I believe that stimulates RBC production strongly.

Diesel: thanks for your imput.
At a young age atrial fib may not be too much of a concern, however in the elderly it is much more of a concern as tachicardia can lead to CHF and or MI. The older the heart the more I become concerned as a patient who is lying in bed and has a heart rate range of 110 -170 for example and diaphoretic, is just an MI or a stroke waiting to happen. There is no way lying in bed ‘running a marathon’ is at all healthy for these patients. - I have seen many of them whose hr is faster at rest in bed then mine is while doing Cardio!

Prisoner22
I totally agree. My uncle has been in steady AF for 17 years. He is on Kumatin daily. His aorta has actually remapped and it would be dangerous to shock him as he will just convert back to AF.
For someone who pops in AF once a lifetime, or even once a year, as I do, it is a different story. My episodes have never lasted more than 12 hrs. Many times I just pop a xanax and lay down, and go to sleep and I convert while sleeping. Usually I tach to 130-140bpm, so I head to the hospital.
I would like to hear what you have to say about PAC’s, as these have been occuring frequently with me and is a bit scary. I know they are harmless, but I do believe the right PAC can put you in AF.

Yes, the are usually benign, they occur in normal and diseased hearts, caused by a variety of reasons, such as stress, fatigue, etoh, and smoking, CAD, cardiac ischemia, CHF, meds like dig and quindine, electrolyte imbalance and htn. The frequency of PAC’s can indicate onset of atrial fib, heart failure or electrolyte imbalances. I ain’t in the cardiac field right now so I’m a little rusty in this area for now. but I can tell you if your condition worsens to the point that you can feel the palpatations, you should be evaluated, as too many ‘skipped beats’ will dramatically decrease the Cardiac output/ stroke volume, which will put greater stress on your heart to make up - but I am sure you already know all this. :slight_smile:

[quote]deisel28 wrote:
Prisoner22
I totally agree. My uncle has been in steady AF for 17 years. He is on Kumatin daily. His aorta has actually remapped and it would be dangerous to shock him as he will just convert back to AF.
For someone who pops in AF once a lifetime, or even once a year, as I do, it is a different story. My episodes have never lasted more than 12 hrs. Many times I just pop a xanax and lay down, and go to sleep and I convert while sleeping. Usually I tach to 130-140bpm, so I head to the hospital.
I would like to hear what you have to say about PAC’s, as these have been occuring frequently with me and is a bit scary. I know they are harmless, but I do believe the right PAC can put you in AF.[/quote]

thanks bro. I get about 3-4 an hour. I feel them, but they don’t seem to get any worse or beter.

Here’s a link pointing to an article which speaks to a couple of recent studies on how Fish Oil can reduce the risk of developing abnormal heart rhythms (e.g. Afib, PAC’s, PVC’s etc.)

http://www.emersonecologics.com/Newswire.asp?id=686

I have PVCs and have been checked out extensively (echo, holter, etc.). I’m told they are nothing to be too concerned about.
I used to take tons of ECA, but stopped when the PVC’s started about 6 years ago. These PVC’s come in runs, where I may experience thousands per day for about a week, and then they’ll suddenly disappear for months.
Now, PVC’s are not the same as A-fib, but here’s something interesting: The few times I tried prohormones, they brought on real bad runs of PVC’s. I wasn’t taking any other supps at the time. I’m wondering if you guys have any ideas as to why that would happen. I have 2 guesses: one is that maybe the PHs caused an increase in BP which triggered the PVC’s. The second is that the PHs caused some kind of inflammation or even mild hypertrophy of the cardiac muscle. I know my PVC’s are unifocal, so I’ve wondered if any hypertrophy of that area would trigger the PVC’s? Sorry to hijack, but this topic is rarely discussed so I needed to jump in.

[quote]Serge A. Storms wrote:
I have PVCs and have been checked out extensively (echo, holter, etc.). I’m told they are nothing to be too concerned about.
I used to take tons of ECA, but stopped when the PVC’s started about 6 years ago. These PVC’s come in runs, where I may experience thousands per day for about a week, and then they’ll suddenly disappear for months.
Now, PVC’s are not the same as A-fib, but here’s something interesting: The few times I tried prohormones, they brought on real bad runs of PVC’s. I wasn’t taking any other supps at the time. I’m wondering if you guys have any ideas as to why that would happen. I have 2 guesses: one is that maybe the PHs caused an increase in BP which triggered the PVC’s. The second is that the PHs caused some kind of inflammation or even mild hypertrophy of the cardiac muscle. I know my PVC’s are unifocal, so I’ve wondered if any hypertrophy of that area would trigger the PVC’s? Sorry to hijack, but this topic is rarely discussed so I needed to jump in.[/quote]

I feel your pain, as I also suffer with occasional bouts of PVC’s. That’s how I stumbled upon the Fish Oil article/study above.

I have done quite a few cycles of prohormones and haven’t found that it induces more frequent PVC’s. One possibility is that the CNS effect of 4-AD could be a trigger.

I have been supplementing with Magnesium and fish oil, which definitely seems to be beneficial. Although, I’ve never had them to the degree that you do (1000’s/day).

Mine are most frequent after a big meal (weird) and subsequent to a high anxiety/High exertion event. The doctor says it won’t kill me, so I just try to deal with it.