T Nation

Athletic Protocol Advice


I have a s&c client who is a long drive golfer and is drug tested periodically, but the tests are scheduled and announced (they are more of a facade than anything) but he still can't go positive without there being problems. I have no idea why it's even an issue but it apparently is.

The specific issue at hand is that I normally train amateur athletes who aren't even allowed to be in the same zip code as AAS and I have never used myself. I have trained many people I suspected of using and know how to train them according to their increased recovery (pretty much like you train an 18 year old- drive them into the ground and watch them recover overnight) but I have never helped anyone with specific knowledge. He asked me to help specifically and I agreed on the condition that he is never anywhere near me or my place with the stuff.

I have attempted to dissuade the guy but he insists. So , in the interest of taking care of my client, I have been on a crash course for the last month. Our medical people are going to be watching for liver enzyme problems, lipid profile, bp, etc. as this is not my area.

Basic info:

Age- 31
Weight- 285
BF- 22%
Cholesterol- 144
BP- avg 120/84
Resting HR- avg 72 bpm

Strength levels are plenty high for the chosen discipline and power numbers are good.

His basic goal is to maintain the strength we have built and lean out considerably in order to be able to clear his gut with the swing. He has lost about 70 pounds since I began training him two years ago (I never crash diet a client) and added about 30 pounds of muscle. Yes, we have netted 100 pounds in two years. He basically made John Daly look like Frank Zane when I got him. Progress should continue, but he is getting impatient and wants to speed it up. His statement was, "I'm going to do this, please help me."

I have designed a sample protocol based on my reading and it is basically a take on one of p22's recs.

We are using only orals due to the fact that he visits the lab every ten weeks and short clearances are a must. Apparently he has access to the subs listed and others but these are the only ones with short enough clearance times to allow for any quality time on.

Weeks 1-3

D-bol 30 mg/ed
Anavar 50 mg/ed
Winstrol Depot (orally) 50 mg/eod
Letro 2.5 mg/eod
t3 20 mg/ed
Milk Thistle

Week 4
Clomid 50mg/ed

Week 5
Nolva 20 mg/ed

Week 6
Clomid 50mg/ed

HOT-ROX and Alpha Male throughout PCT.

Basically, this allows us to clear everything with two weeks grace period before the test. He is going to repeat the cycle until we have reached our goal of 12% BF. With the benefit of being able to restrict the diet some more, I am thinking on the order of two or three cycles.

The guy never drinks, so liver issues should be to a minimum.

Specific question:

Are we wasting our time with the Winny?

He has access to only enough to do the eod at 50 two times and I am wondering if the oral ingestion will render this dosing ineffective.

Any thoughts on the overall set-up and an answer to the winny question would be greatly apped.

Sorry to ramble, but that is my habit. Just check out my posts on the training and strength forums and you'll see that I am hopelessly long winded when it comes to details.



Thanks for the help guys.


c'mon, this golfer 'friend'... it's you innit??



First of all why would you want d-bol in that stack. It's not a cutting drug and is heavy aromatise and big on water retention...meaning that if you cut it out altogether you could also drop the clomid and nolva.
If he wants to "lean out" then the anavar and winstrol will do the trick.
Why would you put a biginner on t3. If you want to screw him up then thats the way to go otherwise stick to clen for the 3 weeks...it works just as well and will not play havoc with the thyroid.
On another note winny has been known to show up in tests for up to 5 months...remember Ben Johnson?

I'm thinking anavar and clen. Nothing else. See how that goes and then if necessary move on up.

Anavar is expensive but it works and gains stay for good. If slow and steady is the way you like to go then that's the protocol.


Ben Johnson's tests were a fix according to his coach, Charlie Francis. If you read his book "Speed Trap" he does admit that Johnson was on a steroid regime (as were probably the majority of the athletes there!), Francis states that Johnson cycle ended 28 days before the race. The test revealed that the parent compound of Winny was present in his bloodstream, which usually only lasts for 45-60 mins in the body. This would mean that Johnson took steroids prior to the race in the full knowledge that if he won he would be tested. This just isn't going to happen. The test was either rigged or he was spiked before the race.




I agree for the most part but there is a school of thought that believes that there are some inactive metabolites that are easily esterified and can be spotted for pretty long periods of time. I guess it would depend on how much was being used and for what period of time for these puppies to show up on a screen.


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with detection times and your goals in mind....

test prop and var would be a better option. unless i'm mistaken, the detection time for both is about 3 weeks after last administration. var and OT would be a decent option aswell. scrap the d-bol and winny. also, drop the clen and/or t3..ECA stacks are a safer alternative IMO.


I agree. Test Prop, anavar, T3, and anastrozole. The cutter of choice for the goals you want and clearance time saftey. But will a fat golfer be able to suffer the everyday injections of prop? I doubt it. And from experience I have learned that winny doesn't help much if you aren't already in a farily lean state. So you have read that winny is a good "cutter", but I don't think it will help your fat client.