T Nation

Athletes Second Cycle Advice

My first cycle was 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, 2 weeks on of Test Prop (500mg/ week), with Dbol added on the 2nd set of 2 weeks. Gained a ton of weight no problem but little strength. I also found I do not tolerate higher doses very well as I get Test fever.

Stats:
Weight: currently 175-180
BF: Last time I got in the hydrostatic tank it was a little under 7 in the offseason.
Height: 6’0"
Goals: Strength is priority, but size is ok - I am a competitive D1 collegiate athlete and a national record holding powerlifter, both with and without AAS. I will be in the off season for my sport when I am on cycle.

Proposed Second Cycle:
Weeks 1-7: Test E: 250mg 2x week, with a 900 mg front load on first injection
Weeks 1-3: Dbol at 30 mg/day, taken in the morning together for the first few days, and then in split dosages after that
Weeks 4-8: Provirin at dosages 25/25/50/50/50 per day
PCT:
Week 8: Clomid at 100mg/day
Weeks 9-10: Clomid at 50 mg/day
AI: Arimidex on hand, only used if needed

Questions:
-Is it ok to run a relatively short cycle with test E, i realize the clearance times are kind of long, but it seems i can work around it with the front load. Would it be possible to shorten this to 6 weeks if need be or do you think it would be too short of a time with peak T levels?

-I dont know too much about proviron, does this setup seem ok? should i continue to take it for a couple weeks into PCT? for example shift the proviron to weeks 5-9, or should i keep it out of PCT all together?

Thanks
GF

I calculate 600 mg as the appropriate test E frontload dose on Day1. Normally the equation is as follows:

frontload mg = (weekly mg * ester half life / days per week) + interval mg

In your case: (500 * 5 / 7) + 250 = 607mg

I would also not start PCT until the serum level of test e falls to around or below 100mg. That takes about two weeks. So make those weeks waiting weeks and start PCT on week 10.

I would also use the Adex from Day 1. In fact I would frontload it like the test E. That would be around 1mg on Day 1 and then about 0.4mg EOD while using both test e and dbol. Then around 0.3 mg EOD (adjust as needed) for the duration.

Otherwise the setup looks OK. If you want to get fancy, you can toy with the idea of moving the dbol to weeks 7-9 so that those weeks ccan be more productive while your test level is falling enough to start PCT. That makes for more productive weeks. If you move the dbol, adjust Adex accordingly.

got cha, i guess i flipped the 5/7 to 7/5, as It was written as such in a thread or two. So ill front load 600. cant believe i made that mistake… Thanks

Oh yeah, I got a little mixed up typing this up, thanks. Meant to start PCT on week 10, so taking 2 weeks off. Thanks

I am interested in why you want to frontload Adex, and continue through the cycle, especially with the proviron in there.

It is solely to deal with the aromatization of Dbol? If i have problems I planned to simply start dosing the Adex. I am wondering about your reasoning with frontloading it along with dosing it throughout the cycle.

I suggest frontloading Adex because it takes about 7 days to get to full blood level if not frontloaded. Also maintaing E2 at low-normal for a male is ideal to maximise free testosterone and prevent any high E2 sides like nipple irritation, gyno, water retention, low libido, etc. Proviron is helpful, but does not replace an AI. Also dbol aromatises heavily.

Im curious about why you have chosen test/dbol again?

You said that strength is your priority but that your previous cycle (test/dbol) didn’t produce the strength gains you were looking for. Do you think it was due to your training style or your eating habits (I use ‘or’ inclusively)?

Are you using the same drugs again because it is all you have acess to?

But to answer your questions
Yes it is possible to use Test E for 6 or 7 weeks. Prop would be better though.

If you want to use Proviron just go with 50mg/d. Don’t start low unless your product comes in a specific amount and using less in the first two weeks allows you to get away with ordering one package of it.

I have asked myself that as well, bone, and its not all i have access to. I figure I will give it another go because my first cycle was so short. Do you think I would be wiser to use winny with the test? say Oral Winstrol weeks 1-4 @ 50mg/day.

I also am not convinced that my Dbol the first time around was of the highest quality as I got no extra effect from it when i added it in on top of the Test.

I would like other opinions on the Adex, I feel like most say to avoid its use unless needed as the higher estrogen can be beneficial.

still wondering about the reasoning behind frontloading the Adex…I looked around a little and found almost nothing about it.

adex from the start if running test and dbol.

adex has a halflife like anything else.

if you start out just taking your daily dose, your levels take quite some time to build up to that dose.

Taking a large dose, placing the level where it should be, then maintaining it is much more logical and effective.

Prop is a better choice for shorter cycles, especially if clearance time is a concern for testing reasons.

I see no reason to taper up with the prov

Clomid is a crappy SERM. It needs to be dosed so high that it messes up your eyes and causes depression and mood swings in most.

Torefemine is my first choice, nolva is second.

The reason I have the Proviron like that is because i figured i could get some benefits at 25mg/day, and then up the dose as the cycle is ending and im off the gear to help with recovery post cycle. Is my logic off?

[quote]getfast24 wrote:
The reason I have the Proviron like that is because i figured i could get some benefits at 25mg/day, and then up the dose as the cycle is ending and im off the gear to help with recovery post cycle. Is my logic off?[/quote]

Hmmm the proviron argument is an old one.

Different people tell you different things, but even the crowd that says it does not cause suppression will admit that this is true in only about 2/3 of users.

So I would say that it clearly causes suppression, which makes sense as it is an androgen, but that the suppression is minor.

I do not buy into the no “suppression” argument.

Using fast clearing orals in the morning is a common PCT trick, I do not feel it is wise, Id rather recovery as quickly as possible and be on my way.

But many swear by it, and certainly the logic behind it is sound.

As for the proviron your in the same boat, but instead of a moderately suppressive oral that clears quickly enough, your running a minimally suppressive androgen.

Its up to you, I do not recommend it. But I cant really comment beyond that.

Were it me, Id run it high all the way through and drop it in the PCT. Simple and no fuss, no uncertainty.

Ok so ive been thinking about this cycle more and considering that strength is far and away my main goal I was thinking of 4-6 weeks of Test Prop and Tren Ace, Dosing would be around 250mg/week for both of them. I have two main questions about this though.

  1. What on-cycle-therapy will i need. Is Arimidex or Letro better? and how should i dose and time that dosing?

  2. Is that dosing ratio and amount ok? I want to keep the test level low to minimize weight gain.

Ok, so Im still trying to figure this out. Any advice on this PCT, on-cycle stuff would be great.

Plan:

weeks 1-4
Tren Ace - 250 mg/week
Test Prop - 250 mg/week
AI - on hand
Letro - on hand (do you think this is necessary)

Weeks 5-6
PCT - SERM PCT

Goal is strength. I might extend this to 6 weeks once I have my schedule for the time of the cycle more exact.

Good info on this thread!