T Nation

Athens on Fire, Again

*EDIT: 48% of Greeks wants Greece out of Eurozone, versus a 28% who wants Greece in the Eurozone. Just some food for thought…

I’m also wondering what percentage of other Eurozone countries want Greece out of the EU … I can’t be fun for Germans to have to pay for Greece’s poor fiscal policy

Well, I guess we’re seeing what happens when you have a unified currency and a decentralized fiscal policy.

It just doesn’t work.

I think the Euro will survive, but everyone will have to realize if they want “in” they are going to have to match their society’s entitlements to those of Germany’s. This goes for Italy and France as well.

Brits are obviously not immune, a tanking Euro makes their products really expensive to other European countries.

[quote]polo77j wrote:
I’m also wondering what percentage of other Eurozone countries want Greece out of the EU … I can’t be fun for Germans to have to pay for Greece’s poor fiscal policy[/quote]

Au contraire. The reason this Greece (and southern European generally) fandango has drawn on so long is that the situation is so beneficial for Germany’s exports.

Interesting that the media refer to these people as ‘anti-government rioters.’ Are they? Who are they? Public sector workers. These are ‘big-government rioters.’ They are burning down Athens again because they want more government, more pay, more benefits, more entitlement, more “job security” and more holidays. These are the parasitic, bureaucratic dregs that leech off the private sector.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Interesting that the media refer to these people as ‘anti-government rioters.’ Are they? Who are they? Public sector workers. These are ‘big-government rioters.’ They are burning down Athens again because they want more government, more pay, more benefits, more entitlement, more “job security” and more holidays. These are the parasitic, bureaucratic dregs that leech off the private sector.[/quote]

No, they are not only public sector workers. Most of them were people unemployed. I was there, trust me on this one. They were also people that don’t want to work for 440 euros a month until they are 25, people like me. What you said, is completely incorrect and false.

[quote]niksamaras wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Interesting that the media refer to these people as ‘anti-government rioters.’ Are they? Who are they? Public sector workers. These are ‘big-government rioters.’ They are burning down Athens again because they want more government, more pay, more benefits, more entitlement, more “job security” and more holidays. These are the parasitic, bureaucratic dregs that leech off the private sector.[/quote]

No, they are not only public sector workers. Most of them were people unemployed. I was there, trust me on this one. They were also people that don’t want to work for 440 euros a month until they are 25, people like me. What you said, is completely incorrect and false.[/quote]

To save some time - three questions.

First question: Who organised these “protests?”

Second question: Do you mean public sector or private unions?

Third question: Which public sector unions organised these protests?

Private sector unions too? Well it is Athens.

[quote]niksamaras wrote:
They were also people that don’t want to work for 440 euros a month until they are 25,
[/quote]

Did you know that GERMANY has no minimum wage law? Neither does Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland nor Austria?

“Sunday’s protesters included trade unionists, youths with shaven heads waving Greek flags, communist activists and left-wing sympathisers, many of them equipped with gas masks.”

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]niksamaras wrote:
They were also people that don’t want to work for 440 euros a month until they are 25,
[/quote]

Did you know that GERMANY has no minimum wage law? Neither does Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland nor Austria?

“Sunday’s protesters included trade unionists, youths with shaven heads waving Greek flags, communist activists and left-wing sympathisers, many of them equipped with gas masks.”[/quote]

The protest was organised by ΠÎ?Î?Î?, a left winged political party. But, all the fucked up thigns that happened were NOT in that political party. They were kids that are guided by each goverment, and during the protest, are taking orders for police officers dressed like them. And yes, I have evidence for this. And yes, everyone in Greece knows this. And yes, a very small percentage had gas masks, you know why? Because without one, it is impossible to stand withing 200 meters of the police, with all the tear gas they were throwing like it was candy on Halloween. The PEACEFUL protest began in syntagma square, outside of the parliament. Then, for NO reason, cops came and threw pepper spray and tear gas to the public in order to make them scarce. Now, let me tell you something else. In the protest, there were about half a million people, if not more. If all of them were voting for ΠÎ?Î?Î?, ΠÎ?Î?Î? would be the goverment now. That is not the case. ΠÎ?Î?Î?, gets about 1,5% in elections. SO yeah, ΠÎ?Î?Î? organised the protest, but people of every political party known to Greece was there with them.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]niksamaras wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Interesting that the media refer to these people as ‘anti-government rioters.’ Are they? Who are they? Public sector workers. These are ‘big-government rioters.’ They are burning down Athens again because they want more government, more pay, more benefits, more entitlement, more “job security” and more holidays. These are the parasitic, bureaucratic dregs that leech off the private sector.[/quote]

No, they are not only public sector workers. Most of them were people unemployed. I was there, trust me on this one. They were also people that don’t want to work for 440 euros a month until they are 25, people like me. What you said, is completely incorrect and false.[/quote]

To save some time - three questions.

First question: Who organised these “protests?”

Second question: Do you mean public sector or private unions?

Third question: Which public sector unions organised these protests?[/quote]

No public sectors were in this protest, at least I didn’t see any of their flags. I just saw Greek flags and ΠÎ?Î?Î? flags waving. The new laws apply for every working person in Greece. So yeah, from mid June, the cops will be getting a whooping 550 euros per month.

[quote]niksamaras wrote:
…during the protest, are taking orders for police officers dressed like them. And yes, I have evidence for this. And yes, everyone in Greece knows this.

[/quote]

Police union members maybe?

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]niksamaras wrote:
…during the protest, are taking orders for police officers dressed like them. And yes, I have evidence for this. And yes, everyone in Greece knows this.

[/quote]

Police union members maybe?[/quote]

Cops don’t have a union here in Greece. Just plain cops.

I didn’t know that. They’re still public servants. And I’m not the one saying that they’re dressing up as civilians and throwing molotov cocktails injuring 50 of their colleagues.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
I didn’t know that. They’re still public servants. And I’m not the one saying that they’re dressing up as civilians and throwing molotov cocktails injuring 50 of their colleagues.[/quote]

I am, because they did it. And they will do. That is how propaganda works.

Well, Niksamaras, what do you propose?
What do your fellow men think?

How to climb out of the shit-well you’ve fallen into?

p.s. I don’t think Germany payed one dime for Greece’s fiscal rescue, apart from the huge euro investments a few years back, of course - so far it’s all promises to stand up for the debt.

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Well, Niksamaras, what do you propose?
What do your fellow men think?

How to climb out of the shit-well you’ve fallen into?

p.s. I don’t think Germany payed one dime for Greece’s fiscal rescue, apart from the huge euro investments a few years back, of course - so far it’s all promises to stand up for the debt.

[/quote]

Greece has a fuckload of oil in the Aegean, a fuckload of gold in Epirus and Macedonia (yes, Macedonia is Greek), a lot of plutoneum in Epirus too, we export aluminium in whole europe ( I believe we are 3rd in the world in the production of aluminium) and a crapload of other stuff. Also, Germany owes us about 60 billion euros from damages that were done in the second world war. Too many things to list them here. The point is, Greece with a great leader, Georgios Papadopoulos, in just 6 years, made its debt to reach below 20% from 114% when he took over, in which meantime he built basically every airport and main road that is still used today, except a few. So yeah, Greece can make a crapload of money.

[quote]niksamaras wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Well, Niksamaras, what do you propose?
What do your fellow men think?

How to climb out of the shit-well you’ve fallen into?

p.s. I don’t think Germany payed one dime for Greece’s fiscal rescue, apart from the huge euro investments a few years back, of course - so far it’s all promises to stand up for the debt.

[/quote]

Also, Germany owes us about 60 billion euros from damages that were done in the second world war. Too many things to list them here. [/quote]

Well that about sums it up.

[quote]niksamaras wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Well, Niksamaras, what do you propose?
What do your fellow men think?
How to climb out of the shit-well you’ve fallen into?
p.s. I don’t think Germany payed one dime for Greece’s fiscal rescue, apart from the huge euro investments a few years back, of course - so far it’s all promises to stand up for the debt.
[/quote]
Greece has a fuckload of oil in the Aegean, a fuckload of gold in Epirus and Macedonia (yes, Macedonia is Greek), a lot of plutoneum in Epirus too, we export aluminium in whole europe ( I believe we are 3rd in the world in the production of aluminium) and a crapload of other stuff. Also, Germany owes us about 60 billion euros from damages that were done in the second world war. Too many things to list them here. The point is, Greece with a great leader, Georgios Papadopoulos, in just 6 years, made its debt to reach below 20% from 114% when he took over, in which meantime he built basically every airport and main road that is still used today, except a few. So yeah, Greece can make a crapload of money. [/quote]

Germany owes you?
It’s sure nice to have a partial historic memory- to return the favour, last time I checked, you would be still herding turkish goats without Germany.

And by Georgios Papadopoulos, you mean the dictator?
Wow.
I was hoping for something more substantial then dreams of a strong, ruthless junta that will command the insane debt away.

And as part of the EU, you cannot seriously hope for a coup d’etat.

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

[quote]niksamaras wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Well, Niksamaras, what do you propose?
What do your fellow men think?
How to climb out of the shit-well you’ve fallen into?
p.s. I don’t think Germany payed one dime for Greece’s fiscal rescue, apart from the huge euro investments a few years back, of course - so far it’s all promises to stand up for the debt.
[/quote]
Greece has a fuckload of oil in the Aegean, a fuckload of gold in Epirus and Macedonia (yes, Macedonia is Greek), a lot of plutoneum in Epirus too, we export aluminium in whole europe ( I believe we are 3rd in the world in the production of aluminium) and a crapload of other stuff. Also, Germany owes us about 60 billion euros from damages that were done in the second world war. Too many things to list them here. The point is, Greece with a great leader, Georgios Papadopoulos, in just 6 years, made its debt to reach below 20% from 114% when he took over, in which meantime he built basically every airport and main road that is still used today, except a few. So yeah, Greece can make a crapload of money. [/quote]

Germany owes you?
It’s sure nice to have a partial historic memory- to return the favour, last time I checked, you would be still herding turkish goats without Germany.

And by Georgios Papadopoulos, you mean the dictator?
Wow.
I was hoping for something more substantial then dreams of a strong, ruthless junta that will command the insane debt away.

And as part of the EU, you cannot seriously hope for a coup d’etat.[/quote]

Yes, I mean the dictator. Yes, I serisously hope for one. One can always dream, right? LOL

And, no we wouldn’t be herding them IF they hadn’t leave us outgunned and outnumbered just they wanted to in a midlle of the war in 1920’s. On the other side, that war is a prime example that Greek people are easily manipulated by big words of the politicians.