Atheists: Lowest Charitable Giving

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]colt44 wrote:
The difference is most religious folk donate so they will get something in return.[/quote]

Hold on, I just can’t leave this alone. Let me try one:

The reason atheists folk don’t donate is because the existentialist angst that plagues them each numbered day pretty much jackhammers into the chemical reaction they call a conscience: “What’s the use?”

How’d I do?
[/quote]

No, we do it because it makes us feel good, too.

Its purely out of our own selfish, ego driven lust for significance that we do it. Just like anyone else.[/quote]

I didn’t say why you do.

22

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]colt44 wrote:
The difference is most religious folk donate so they will get something in return.[/quote]

Hold on, I just can’t leave this alone. Let me try one:

The reason atheists folk don’t donate is because the existentialist angst that plagues them each numbered day pretty much jackhammers into the chemical reaction they call a conscience: “What’s the use?”

How’d I do?
[/quote]

No, we do it because it makes us feel good, too.

Its purely out of our own selfish, ego driven lust for significance that we do it. Just like anyone else.[/quote]

Well, the different focus seems to generate different outcomes when it comes to actually doing.

23

No real surprises. Some good jokes on this thread. Thread motivated me to check out a few local charities instead of staying on PWI, so all for the good.

24

One of the more popular atheistic theories here is that religion emerged as a social-survival trait (which even the religious need not reject, btw). Albeit one we apparently don’t need anymore (often stated with unexplained certainty). So is the giving of time and money to charity all that surprising, even to the atheist?

Atheist could comfort themselves by noting that the moral worth of charitable giving is a personal thing. That there is no real moral good in charitable giving, as there isn’t a real good and evil. It’s a preference, like ice cream flavors.

25

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]colt44 wrote:
The difference is most religious folk donate so they will get something in return.[/quote]

Hold on, I just can’t leave this alone. Let me try one:

The reason atheists folk don’t donate is because the existentialist angst that plagues them each numbered day pretty much jackhammers into the chemical reaction they call a conscience: “What’s the use?”

How’d I do?
[/quote]

No, we do it because it makes us feel good, too.

Its purely out of our own selfish, ego driven lust for significance that we do it. Just like anyone else.[/quote]

I didn’t say why you do.
[/quote]

No but you are making sweeping generalizations about atheists motivations so I thought I would offer a sweeping generalization about why anyone would be charitable.

We all desire significance. We feel significant when we think we are helping others.

We’re evolved that way because it helps create strong communal bonds which in turn helps secure our own survival.

26

[quote]TooHuman wrote:
Charity “giving” is just buying the feeling of self-esteem, peace of mind, religious/moral gratification.[/quote]

Or we may just care about our fellow man.

27

The article doesn’t say why. But I can render a very simple guess that religious people are called to do it and since atheists have no authority above themselves, they are not.
Of course, I would venture to say that most of them are the same folks who call on the government to provide for the needy. So it’s not like they don’t notice, they just want to distribute the load rather then taking on the challenge directly.

28

Such collectivists we are.

29

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]colt44 wrote:
The difference is most religious folk donate so they will get something in return.[/quote]

Hold on, I just can’t leave this alone. Let me try one:

The reason atheists folk don’t donate is because the existentialist angst that plagues them each numbered day pretty much jackhammers into the chemical reaction they call a conscience: “What’s the use?”

How’d I do?
[/quote]

No, we do it because it makes us feel good, too.

Its purely out of our own selfish, ego driven lust for significance that we do it. Just like anyone else.[/quote]

I didn’t say why you do.
[/quote]

No but you are making sweeping generalizations about atheists motivations so I thought I would offer a sweeping generalization about why anyone would be charitable.

We all desire significance. We feel significant when we think we are helping others.

We’re evolved that way because it helps create strong communal bonds which in turn helps secure our own survival.[/quote]

Don’t read the actual contents of the threads, do you? Just the titles and then come in shooting at the hip.

Mighty “anarchic,” of you.

30

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Atheists make up 10% of the population (allegedly), so you’re going to have to explain people like Warren Buffet and Bill Gates. And Andrew Carnegie. And George Soros. And Ted Turner (who is admittedly a kook). Also DWB/MSF and similar organizations. Proportionally speaking, we have you beat by a long shot.

Assuming you’re making who is the most charitable a contest.[/quote]

Well you have to remove soros and buffet, they aren’t technically atheist, they both think they are gods.

31

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]colt44 wrote:
The difference is most religious folk donate so they will get something in return.[/quote]

Hold on, I just can’t leave this alone. Let me try one:

The reason atheists folk don’t donate is because the existentialist angst that plagues them each numbered day pretty much jackhammers into the chemical reaction they call a conscience: “What’s the use?”

How’d I do?
[/quote]

No, we do it because it makes us feel good, too.

Its purely out of our own selfish, ego driven lust for significance that we do it. Just like anyone else.[/quote]

I didn’t say why you do.
[/quote]

No but you are making sweeping generalizations about atheists motivations so I thought I would offer a sweeping generalization about why anyone would be charitable.

We all desire significance. We feel significant when we think we are helping others.

We’re evolved that way because it helps create strong communal bonds which in turn helps secure our own survival.[/quote]

Don’t read the actual contents of the threads, do you? Just the titles and then come in shooting at the hip.

Mighty “anarchic,” of you.
[/quote]

You said atheists are not charitable. That is untrue. I responded that charity comes from the ego and is therefore not limited to a particular group of people but a quality within all of humanity.

You guys are arguing over meaningless, collectivist statistics.

32

[quote]colt44 wrote:
The difference is most religious folk donate so they will get something in return.[/quote]
Except their own religion tells them if they are charitable for selfish reasons they will forfit their reward.

33

Far be it from me to make sweeping assumptions about people based on
their beliefs (or the lack thereof), but in the spirit of this thread:

Matthew 6:

[quote]1-4: Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before
men, to be seen by them.  Otherwise you have no reward from your
Father in heaven.  Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not
sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and
in the streets, that they may have glory from men.  Assuredly, I say
to you, they have their reward.  But when you do a charitable deed, do
not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your
charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret
will Himself reward you openly.

19-20: Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and
rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for
yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys
and where thieves do not break in and steal.? [/quote]

I’ve always thought that true charity is about giving to someone
without thought of reward. How laudable is it to spend your time and
money helping someone if you believe a supernatural being is going to
send you to hell for not doing so, but promises to give you eternal
riches if you do? That belief cheapens the act, revealing it to be no
more than a selfish personal investment.

Atheists might give less on average than believers, but those that do
give are more likely to do so for the right reasons, because they
actually want to help people, and not because they think a god is
going to bless them for it.

My partner is currently on a medical mission in Kenya. He told me
yesterday about the nightly devotionals the other doctors have, and
how they rejoice in all the poor souls that have accepted Jesus due to
the medical services provided to them. I’m proud of him for serving
the mission solely because he wants to help out, and not because he
thinks doing so would bring him eternal blessings.

Some believers would still give even if their god didn?t command it,
and some atheists would never give because they simply don?t care
about other people. And of course, setting motivation aside, the
bottom line is that people still benefit from the giving, irrespective
of the motivation for the gift. I don’t think the African children
whose lives are saved from this medical mission really care why they
were brought 400 pounds of medicine and 300 pairs of shoes. In the
end, they benefit, and that is a good thing.

34

What does it mean to be charitable?

Does it mean concerning money only or can it also with our time?

What about people who will unhesitatingly offer up cigarettes to their fellow smokers without thought of repayment? Is that charity? What about helping an old lady cross the street?

I think everyone is charitable on their own terms, every once and a while – even in the argumentative sense.

:slight_smile:

35

[quote]forlife wrote:
Far be it from me to make sweeping assumptions about people based on
their beliefs (or the lack thereof), but in the spirit of this thread:

Matthew 6:

[quote]1-4: Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before
men, to be seen by them.  Otherwise you have no reward from your
Father in heaven.  Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not
sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and
in the streets, that they may have glory from men.  Assuredly, I say
to you, they have their reward.  But when you do a charitable deed, do
not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your
charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret
will Himself reward you openly.

19-20: Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and
rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for
yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys
and where thieves do not break in and steal.? [/quote]

I?ve always thought that true charity is about giving to someone
without thought of reward. How laudable is it to spend your time and
money helping someone if you believe a supernatural being is going to
send you to hell for not doing so, but promises to give you eternal
riches if you do? That belief cheapens the act, revealing it to be no
more than a selfish personal investment.

Atheists might give less on average than believers, but those that do
give are more likely to do so for the right reasons, because they
actually want to help people, and not because they think a god is
going to bless them for it.

My partner is currently on a medical mission in Kenya. He told me
yesterday about the nightly devotionals the other doctors have, and
how they rejoice in all the poor souls that have accepted Jesus due to
the medical services provided to them. I’m proud of him for serving
the mission solely because he wants to help out, and not because he
thinks doing so would bring him eternal blessings.

Some believers would still give even if their god didn?t command it,
and some atheists would never give because they simply don?t care
about other people. And of course, setting motivation aside, the
bottom line is that people still benefit from the giving, irrespective
of the motivation for the gift. I don’t think the African children
whose lives are saved from this medical mission really care why they
were brought 400 pounds of medicine and 300 pairs of shoes. In the
end, they benefit, and that is a good thing.[/quote]

No, we are commanded to love everyone. From that love there should be fruit. That is a huge difference.

In the bible, works cannot get you into heaven. You are misrepresenting Christianity.

36

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
Far be it from me to make sweeping assumptions about people based on
their beliefs (or the lack thereof), but in the spirit of this thread:

Matthew 6:

[quote]1-4: Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before
men, to be seen by them. � Otherwise you have no reward from your
Father in heaven. � Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not
sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and
in the streets, that they may have glory from men. � Assuredly, I say
to you, they have their reward. � But when you do a charitable deed, do
not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your
charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret
will Himself reward you openly.

19-20: Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and
rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for
yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys
and where thieves do not break in and steal.? [/quote]

I?ve always thought that true charity is about giving to someone
without thought of reward. How laudable is it to spend your time and
money helping someone if you believe a supernatural being is going to
send you to hell for not doing so, but promises to give you eternal
riches if you do? That belief cheapens the act, revealing it to be no
more than a selfish personal investment.

Atheists might give less on average than believers, but those that do
give are more likely to do so for the right reasons, because they
actually want to help people, and not because they think a god is
going to bless them for it.

My partner is currently on a medical mission in Kenya. He told me
yesterday about the nightly devotionals the other doctors have, and
how they rejoice in all the poor souls that have accepted Jesus due to
the medical services provided to them. I’m proud of him for serving
the mission solely because he wants to help out, and not because he
thinks doing so would bring him eternal blessings.

Some believers would still give even if their god didn?t command it,
and some atheists would never give because they simply don?t care
about other people. And of course, setting motivation aside, the
bottom line is that people still benefit from the giving, irrespective
of the motivation for the gift. I don’t think the African children
whose lives are saved from this medical mission really care why they
were brought 400 pounds of medicine and 300 pairs of shoes. In the
end, they benefit, and that is a good thing.[/quote]

No, we are commanded to love everyone. From that love there should be fruit. That is a huge difference.

In the bible, works cannot get you into heaven. You are misrepresenting Christianity.[/quote]

Then why is the bible chock-full of dire warnings to those who won’t repent, and with lofty promises for those that do? If it didn’t matter, it wouldn’t be in the bible in the first place.

I do understand your point about Christian churches who focus on grace vs works, but I’m sure you understand that other Christian churches believe works are also important.

37

[quote]forlife wrote:
Then why is the bible chock-full of dire warnings to those who won’t repent, and with lofty promises for those that do? If it didn’t matter, it wouldn’t be in the bible in the first place.

I do understand your point about Christian churches who focus on grace vs works, but I’m sure you understand that other Christian churches believe works are also important.[/quote]

Works are a result of love, not a command. What you are insinuating that repentance has to do with works, I have no idea. You lost me on that.

“NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost” (Titus 3:5)

Ephesians 2:8-9, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.”

“Knowing that a man is NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED” (Galatians 2:16)

God promises Christians nothing for works.

38

Admittedly, the book of Mormon is very different. That does say man is saved and judged by works, but it runs contradictory to the bible.

39

[quote]TooHuman wrote:
Charity “giving” is just buying the feeling of self-esteem, peace of mind, religious/moral gratification.[/quote]

If that is true, that is the best argument for charity I have ever heard.

Soooo, how much of the above would I get for 100 bucks?

40

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Admittedly, the book of Mormon is very different. That does say man is saved and judged by works, but it runs contradictory to the bible.[/quote]

Not just Mormons, but Catholics and any other Christian denomination who believe both faith and good works are important.

But even looking at the grace churches, shouldn’t you love people even if you haven’t been saved? Is it more laudable to serve others out of gratitude to your god for saving you from damnation, or because you actually love people and want to help them?