T Nation

Atheism-o-Phobia Part 3


That was quick!

This one's for Tiribulus:

Lines like these. Has anyone ever taken the bait? I realise that sounds unkind, but that's how it comes across to me.


Now there you go again =] You don't pay attention when I speak because you think I'm a lobotomized religious zombie. Or you don't believe that I really believe what I'm saying or maybe a bit of both.

Nobody can be baited into new life in Christ. It was an honest observation. You're not the first guy I've encountered who was tripping over the most high God in their efforts to deny Him.


"I know this big secret and you don't, I'm superior, you (for whatever crazy reason) choose to ignore it!"


Secret huh?


Before this turns into a shit-show, pissing-match...

Can we move on to the topic of subjectivity vs. objectivity? Or, am I the only one interested in this?

I've been attempting to formulate some sort of scale of probability... or weigh the plausibility of a deity in the context of quantum mechanics... or does it even alter the plausibility?

If reality, physics, etc.. is bound by the effect of observation, what does this mean to the various schools of theology and to atheists.

I'd be interested in finding some reading material, etc..


I feel what most of the thread theme has been following is the epistemological differences between theist and atheist.


forlife wrote:

The perceived universe is subjective, as it exists in the mind of the perceiver. But the universe itself remains objective. We can only guess at the true nature of the universe, through the lens of our subjective perception, but that doesn't imply the true universe doesn't exist. Clearly it does, or there would be nothing to be perceived nor anyone to perceive it.

swoleupinya answered: If you can answer the question; "When does an electron decay?" with anything objective, then you may be able to say that there is actually an objective universe.

Quantum physics are leading us to a place where subjectivity seems to be the only arbiter.


swoleupinya wrote:
<<< Quantum physics are leading us to a place where subjectivity seems to be the only arbiter. >>>

Tiribulus answered: Subjectivity has always been the only arbiter for the self perceived, self determining autonomous man.


On the matter of "self", i wrote:

However, the question of "Who am I" is key. You can't just accept another man's word on the subject. To really get to the heart of the matter you need to observe and investigate the nature and aspects of yourself with unrelenting honesty.

It is the assumption of self, and this is where we part ways, that's the boon of existence. It is this first false assumption that clouds truthful judgment; that obscures clarity of mind and being.

It's this first assumption that must be dissected and doubted for truth to shine through.


We may have gained understanding of eachother in light of our discussions, but neither of us has come over to the other side [as if it's truth] just one little bit. If anything, our discussions merely enforced the opinion we already had.

It really doesn't matter what you say T, because this isn't about god or God. I'm perfectly fine with having a personal relationship with [a] god if he chooses to reveal himself to me, but it's the believers i have a problem with.

I don't want to be a part of the same religion ZEB is part of. Or Sloth's and Chris' religion. I don't want to be part of your religion either. It's any kind of religion i have a problem with; not god. Why can't you see that?



Then the thread title is severely misleading.


Because unless you follow THEIR God, you are a heathen that must be converted.


Then i'm lucky that i live in a secular country. If that's ever going to change you'll sponsor me for a N.Z. work permit, right? Right?


Of course!





Was part 2 one of the quickest moving threads of all time?

I'm late to the party but ... what is it exactly that we're discussing? The only thing I'm certain of is Trib's attempt to bag himself a convert.

Btw Trib, you should consider Islam. Better rewards for converting people (guaranteed heaven basically)

Its like moving to a superior high interest savings account. That said, if you fail to make regular payments, the bailiffs look a fuckload worse than in your religion.




I am impressed with the "top" view shot of the Milky Way seeing as how were in one of the outer spirals.


Given the way religious people behave sometimes, I can't blame you.
I am postulating several theories lately about behaviour and religious or non-religious belief.

Do you want God to reveal himself to you?