ATG is stupid if you actually want to be a good powerlifter. Ive never seen a strong raw squatter in the APF, IPA, or any fed like that squat past parallel. Usually if you can squat more ATG its because your weak, not explosive. I squatted “ATG” for a while and it had NO CARRYOVER to an actual squat.
I don’t understand how you would be weaker squatting atg. If anything you would be stronger. You have to travel more distance with the weight. I try to squat as low as I can while keeping proper from. I feel like I am more balanced going below parallel and that I get more results.
I squat ATG exclusively but I tried a powerlifting squat just to see. I got an easy 455 but stopped because it felt awkward and I didn’t want to risk injury on a new movement. If I wanted to do a quarter squat or even half squat like you see in the gym I think I could do 6 plates pretty easy, I’ve done it from pins messing around before. My best ATG is only 315 but I’m 6’2" and have super long femurs so obviously it’s gonna be bad leverages. For comparison, I pulled 500 3 months ago and I weigh 215 lbs. (should be about 350 lbs. if I wanted to compete, bodyweight is 70% or more of strength IME)
Basically, everyone is different and you can’t know until you try it. Figure out what your goals are and do what you need to go achieve them. That’s all that matters.
My understanding is Fred Hatfield only used “powerlifting” form/technique about 8 weeks out from a meet. Otherwise he used high bar, olympic style predominantly. I guess some here calls it stupid. Go figure.
[quote]brauny96 wrote:
ATG is stupid if you actually want to be a good powerlifter. Ive never seen a strong raw squatter in the APF, IPA, or any fed like that squat past parallel. Usually if you can squat more ATG its because your weak, not explosive. I squatted “ATG” for a while and it had NO CARRYOVER to an actual squat.[/quote]
how old are you? how long you been lifting? what an idiotic statement.
[quote]alexus wrote:
The wider your stance the higher your ATG position will be. The more you sit your butt back the higher your ATG position will be.
I’ve wondered (but I’ll admit that I don’t know) whether the point of powerlifting style squatting might be to adopt the degree of width and sitting back-ness that places their bottom position… Uncontroversially (3 white lights) below parallel.
In which case… Below parallel = ATG for them.
For Olympic Lifting the aim is to get your torso down as low under the bar as possible. To achieve greater depth they adopt a narrower stance and sit their butt straight down instead of back. They lift considerably less weight that way than powerlifters do with their wider and sitting back style squat. That is okay, though, since the limiting factor for Oly Lifting is typically balancing the bar overhead rather than standing up the squat. I don’t know many people who train both styles (don’t know why one would), though.
[/quote]
I am on another training forum( norwegian one ) and have followed some of the logs of the powerlifters and they use both high bar( I guess that is olympic style squat ) and low bar squat. So for them( norwegian IPF powerlifters ) both are usefull atleast.
[quote]Hold Up wrote:
My understanding is Fred Hatfield only used “powerlifting” form/technique about 8 weeks out from a meet. Otherwise he used high bar, olympic style predominantly. I guess some here calls it stupid. Go figure.[/quote]
The ONLY time I ever did powerlifting style squats was right before a competition (6-8 weeks out). Otherwise, I did several of the other varieties of squats, depending upon where I was in my cycle and what my training objectives were at the time.
By the way…he squated over 1100 lbs
Edit:
An answer to original question:
“The weight distribution and better leverage afforded by the bar position and wider stance allow the powerlifter to squat with as much as 20 percent more weight than the upright technique allows”
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
I have no idea. Powerlifting is squatting for lights, not for depth. Any extra movement is wasted energy and a lower total.[/quote]
An old poster here with the screen name Goldberg once said squatting excessively deep is like paying ten bucks for a pack of gum. Doesn’t make sense.
I have bad shoulders and must use an ssb. One of my auxiliary exercises are paused Olympic squats . My work sets are 325 x 4. My top heavy set is 430-440 x 3 this week. So I have no idea.
I don’t know if stating the obvious is necessary , but Olympic squats are deep so they can catch the clean lower. Just that simple. I really don’t see much benefit as long as you break parallel. Which is what some guys call atg.
[quote]punnyguy wrote:
[quote]alexus wrote:
For Olympic Lifting the aim is to get your torso down as low under the bar as possible.
[/quote]
Excellent points in general but this is key. (This is my amateur .02 of course.) When you are dealing with the massive weights that the elite OL are using, the lifters have to be focused just as much on dropping beneath the weight, as they are in heaving it up off the ground. The lower you can drop, the better your chances of getting under the weight. Plus the more upright your torso, the better the physics for actually holding on to the weight, when/if you catch it.[/quote]
Didn’t see this before I posted.
Oh lord, I didn’t see this was an old thread . Sorry , tired today.
bottom line is try squatting your best powerlifting style training squat pr ass to grass andd i bet 9 times out of 10 you wont get it. ass to grass is harder. that is a fact. i understand this is a powerlifting forum but some guys have brought up that ass to grass squatting is stupid. i disagree. i think it makes your powerifting style parallel squat stronger. and it strengthens your posterior chain way more.
They’re entirely different lifts. It’s not just a matter of bar placement or stance, the entire motor pattern is different. As Tom63 and a few others have pointed out, your individual biomechanics will alter the ease or difficulty of each type of squat, and since most of us are not concerned with this particular type (because it’s unnecessary in the sport we compete in), we’ll mostly squat less with this style. Of course it’s harder. What’s your point?
Anyway, you asked in the original post about ratios. To answer the ?, I squat about 100 pounds less using that style, but that’s probably not a useful piece of information. What is useful, to me at least, is that I have found that training the O-squat regularly will not make any difference in my meet squat, but when my meet squat goes up, so does my O-squat. Louie Simmons talks about this in some of his articles. Paraphrasing: “wide translates to close, but close usually doesn’t translate to wide.” Squatting O-style isn’t stupid, but it’s kind of a waste of time if you really want to be a good PLer. Spend your time doing what makes YOU squat more.
/thread
[quote]strengthstudent wrote:
They’re entirely different lifts. It’s not just a matter of bar placement or stance, the entire motor pattern is different. As Tom63 and a few others have pointed out, your individual biomechanics will alter the ease or difficulty of each type of squat, and since most of us are not concerned with this particular type (because it’s unnecessary in the sport we compete in), we’ll mostly squat less with this style. Of course it’s harder. What’s your point?
Anyway, you asked in the original post about ratios. To answer the ?, I squat about 100 pounds less using that style, but that’s probably not a useful piece of information. What is useful, to me at least, is that I have found that training the O-squat regularly will not make any difference in my meet squat, but when my meet squat goes up, so does my O-squat. Louie Simmons talks about this in some of his articles. Paraphrasing: “wide translates to close, but close usually doesn’t translate to wide.” Squatting O-style isn’t stupid, but it’s kind of a waste of time if you really want to be a good PLer. Spend your time doing what makes YOU squat more.
/thread[/quote]
i agree with much of this, IF you are talking about a geared monolift competition squat. decades ago, when equipment was minimal and people could not get into the ultra wide stances as easy when they had to walk out squats, assistance work was much different.
many of the routines from the big names like hatfield, pacifico, kazmier, etc, I read in magazines when i was just getting into the sport, most would use a high bare narrower stance squat as an assistance movement, or do “olympic style” squats in the “off season” when not training for a meet.
so to dismiss the op and that type of squat all together is somewhat naive, especially with “raw” lifting making a bit of a comeback these days.
and btw im talking about raw lifting. heavythrower just made me think of that. i dont want anyone to think im talking about geared squats. my fault for not specifying raw squats…
can we start arguing about gear vs raw now?
i bet dixie lifts geared, fucks with viagra, and rolls his joints with a joint rolling machine.
i guess that’s one thing geared powerlifters learn DO EVERYTHING WITH HELP AND GET IT DONE WITH THE SHORTEST RANGE OF MOTION POSSIBLE. PUT A 3 BOARD ON YOUR GF WHILE YOU PORK HER. sniffs ammonia while chugging 2 monsters
[quote]alocubano1110 wrote:
i bet dixie lifts geared, fucks with viagra, and rolls his joints with a joint rolling machine.
i guess that’s one thing geared powerlifters learn DO EVERYTHING WITH HELP AND GET IT DONE WITH THE SHORTEST RANGE OF MOTION POSSIBLE. PUT A 3 BOARD ON YOUR GF WHILE YOU PORK HER. sniffs ammonia while chugging 2 monsters[/quote]
HELL YEAH MOFO!!!
<—you … me—>
trollololol
[quote]alocubano1110 wrote:
i bet dixie lifts geared, fucks with viagra, and rolls his joints with a joint rolling machine.
i guess that’s one thing geared powerlifters learn DO EVERYTHING WITH HELP AND GET IT DONE WITH THE SHORTEST RANGE OF MOTION POSSIBLE. PUT A 3 BOARD ON YOUR GF WHILE YOU PORK HER. sniffs ammonia while chugging 2 monsters[/quote]
[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:
<—you … me—>
trollololol
[quote]alocubano1110 wrote:
i bet dixie lifts geared, fucks with viagra, and rolls his joints with a joint rolling machine.
i guess that’s one thing geared powerlifters learn DO EVERYTHING WITH HELP AND GET IT DONE WITH THE SHORTEST RANGE OF MOTION POSSIBLE. PUT A 3 BOARD ON YOUR GF WHILE YOU PORK HER. sniffs ammonia while chugging 2 monsters[/quote]
[/quote]
that is not me. i wear red shirts, you bitch :'|