Idk if I’m allowed to answer for @hugh_gilly but yeah, we’re both in our teens. Isn’t that why we’re here? To get schooled by y’all older folks. Free ‘education’ haha.
Oh dear, I was attempting to make a humorous statement but failed.
Could conclude that they are genetically blessed and using drugs but not training optimally. However the people they are winning against and beating are not actually training optimally either.
So overall there is a whole contest of people training sub-optimally in our hypothetical scenario and some are winning despite also training sub-optimally.
Let’s just Ockhams Razor is and leave it at that.
And yes I am in my teens. as @Benanything has said
EDIT:
Benanything stated something.
T2hPwnisher posed a question about this statement.
Yogi asked if someone could answer these questions.
I attempted to complicatedly explain the scenario the questions were about.
I see. This scenario isn’t absurd in the least. Thank god for steroids, otherwise no one would have a good physique. Pity the natties who know all about training (eating optimally, squat depth, etc) are too much of a bunch of pussies to stick themselves with a needle.
Yeah, no shit.
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The scenario Benanything said was hypothetical as he didn’t include names of people but it was based off a real scenario.
Thought everyone on T nation insults you if you make a thread talking about a absurd cycle you wish to take while your 17.
The forum director asked me to make this into a new thread and I am responding to what people respond with.
One of the main reasons to make this thread was people age and how that relates to whether they are allowed to give advice or not.
What a discussion. Zack Morris just stirs the pot.
I don’t think these people train sub optimally. Its their personal lives that are sub optimal. The devil is in the details.
For instance, what would you think of a jacked guy (strong or not) coming in after tending bar til close, smelling of alcohol, and crushing a workout. There are equal parts of me that say “wow what a bad ass” and “wow what a Jack ass”.
The part that makes me annoyed and frustrated is the example that is set, the precedent. Not that they’re necessarily giving out advice but their actions that others are paying attention to. If the biggest guy in the gym is a drunk douchebag what will the kids and newbs think? Especially if you’re making sacrifices and truly trying to work with your body. Most will take the easy way the douchebag has laid out.
Do you have any idea how hard it is to compete with these guys/girls(yup) in the health and fitness industry? You could be certified before finishing this post the industry is a joke.
From a PL standpoint they have to be on a program. From an aesthetic standpoint it doesn’t really matter what they do in the gym. While the assisted lifter can get away with working up to a single then doing some volume that would never give optimal results for a natty. Chasing 1RM PRs weekly will almost surely end in injury, that’s how I trained and I’m beat the fuck up.
This is probably why USA is a joke when it comes to Olympic Lifting
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oh I know exactly what you are doing and why.
My remark about the natties was just a joke about how every now and then there are threads started by kids who know how to “train optimally” and are ever-so-proud of their squat depth complaining about how the guys on steroids make so much more progress than they do despite not training optimally or squatting to parallel and so on. After all, steroids, really truly do build muscle even if you do everything wrong. That’s why literally every single person who uses them has an amazing physique. Every single one.
Personally, when I’m on cycle I just sit at home in my underwear eating Cheetos and wanking. Still come away with 6kg of LBM every time.
Pickles me tink, so to speak.
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Note the age of the athletes.
Yup. No talent pool in the US. Every kid wants to grow up to play football, baseball or basketball. Only the kid playing Magic the Gathering at lunch wants to grow up to be a weightlifter.
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China wins a lot more medals than we do while also busting assisted athletes.
How would people feel if they knew top youth sport athletes were being prescribed drugs and hormones through veterinarians?
Alright so it wasn’t aimed at me. [quote=“Yogi1, post:147, topic:227379”]
threads started by kids who know how to “train optimally” and are ever-so-proud of their squat depth complaining about how the guys on steroids make so much more progress than they do despite not training optimally or squatting to parallel and so on.
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These thread are always entertaining to read however I don’t ever recall me starting one or a time in my life complaining about my natty (or lack of) gains.
I couldn’t care less about whether someone takes stuff or not.
When I was in my teens, I believed so much of what guys like hugh and ben believe. That there is such a thing as optimal training, that I was doing it, and that the jokers who were significantly bigger and stronger than me just used steroids to get there and they didn’t know anything about training, etc
You guys are just so misguided on this stuff. Be more flexible about this. You guys DON’T know what is optimal for everyone. You guys DON’T know other peoples priorities. You DON’T know how much anyone else values gym endeavors versus other recreational activities.
Here’s something to consider. What if the guy who does all the things ‘wrong’ but still makes progress hates doing the things you guys consider to be ‘optimal’? What if he used to do these optimal things but got burnt out, and has transitioned to training that he enjoys so that he can continue to go to the gym and be happy? Is it truly optimal, in the greater scheme of things, to do things that don’t make you happy in the gym, when you know other things may only give you, say, 80% of the results but you’ll enjoy the process?
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Yes, this is true.
This is individual, regardless of whether you are on steroids or not.
The principle of progressive overload is essentially common sense, and it seems like they are using it lol. And I think they are right. The interpretation online is wrong. What causes growth is the effort expended when performing a set, not the increase in weight itself. The ability to increase the weight is a gauge of effort expended since the muscle has grown.
Unfortunately, we usually have geniuses who will lift with the same weight for a year on a bodypart split, which would imply a lack of effort, then start something like Stronglifts where they are forced to train with full intensity or they will get crushed by the weight, then the declare they have finally found the Holy Grail of training and bro splits are for roiders because they made no gains when all they needed was some common sense.
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So we don’t know but you do?
Glute Ham Raises ARE awesome!
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I know a lot more about training than you do, yes. And I know, for a fact, that basic training principles do not change from being natural to going on gear. I know that different training programs work best for different people, and that I can’t look at what someone is doing in the gym on any given day and definitively say if they’re doing what is best for them, outside of a few really ridiculous things you see from time to time.
When you say ‘so we don’t know but you do’, I think you’re probably taking me wrong. What I’m saying is that several younger folks in these forums have essentially said or implied that there is only one way to go about training. That there is an ‘optimal’ training method out there. I contend that there is not, and that more time in the gym opens basically everyone’s eyes to this. I know that when I was new to the gym, I was far more dogmatic than I am now.
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What a good laugh! If that helps you sleep at night sure you know more than the fictional character Zack Morris. AC Slater maybe not… Finish reading SuperTraining and you’ll be me 6 years ago.
Maybe the basics but that’s it.
Very true, there are a hundred ways to skin a cat. [quote=“dt79, post:153, topic:227379”]
What causes growth is the effort expended
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Where is your source? Kind of a blanket statement. [quote=“flipcollar, post:152, topic:227379”]
What if he used to do these optimal things but got burnt out, and has transitioned to training that he enjoys so that he can continue to go to the gym and be happy? Is it truly optimal, in the greater scheme of things, to do things that don’t make you happy in the gym, when you know other things may only give you, say, 80% of the results but you’ll enjoy the process?
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Then they should be up front and say they really weren’t about that life and use gear when people ask advice. That’s what this is all about right, who should give advice? Not everybody takes the easy way out.
Also I am only devils advocate here not looking to flame. Thank you @flipcollar for your honesty, sorry if I come across as a jerk troll.
@flipcollar I agree with you on this. [quote=“flipcollar, post:157, topic:227379”]
several younger folks in these forums have essentially said or implied that there is only one way to go about training.
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People view what they have done and worked as the only or optimal way of doing things when in actuality it’s not. [quote=“flipcollar, post:157, topic:227379”]
more time in the gym opens basically everyone’s eyes to this.
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Second to this. I spend around 30 hours a week in the gym basically watching what everyone is doing and it has made me far less dogmatic.
Common sense.
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