T Nation

Assistance Required, TRT in the UK


#1

Hi guys, 25YO, 6’1,220lbs from the UK.

Other Stats:
-hair is average, patchy beard

  • Loosing weight has never been a problem, have used Neil hill to dial my diet in previously. I store fat around lower abdomen, lower back and legs.
  • I am asthmatic
  • I can’t remember the last time I had morning wood.
  • I’m usually tired, not motivated and have very low levels of energy.

I feel the last couple of years have dragged, I want to sort my hormones out and get back on track. I can’t afford a private gp, medical cover won’t compensate and NHS won’t entertain trt.

Cycle history: test and anavar 10 weeks with pct of clomid and nolva although I dropped clomid as it made me feel like death. This was going back in 2013.

I’m considering self administering TRT based on the below results. I’m in the UK and getting trt is non existent as many of you may no- it’s a grey area in medicine here.

The protocols for TRT on the NHS are not worth even trying, I’m sure you’d agree if you examine this.

Blood test date: 21/08/2017

Serum Oestradiol level - 94 pmol/ L (range 50.00 -218.00 pmol/L)
Serum FSH level - 2 iu/ L (range 2.00 - 12.00iu/L)
Lutenising Hormone - 10 iu/L (range 2.00 - 9.00iu/L)
Serum Testostrone - 8.8 nmol/L - (range 8.60 - 29.00nmol/L)
Serum TSH level - 1.87 Mu/L - (range 0.27-4.20mu/L)

I can’t figure out if I’m primary or secondary hypogondaism. Low test levels, low tsh yet really high LH?

Can someone help me understand what’s going on and also steer me in the right direction of what I should be administering.


#2

Nobody here to help?


#3

FSH is usually a more consistent reading that indicates the status of your HPTA. You would probably want to retest to ensure your FSH is low/normal and your leutenizing hormone is that elevated.

If LH really is coming in that high, you are primary. That would mean your only option is TRT.


#4

Thanks for your valuable reply.

I’m already in process to get a retest with a few other things to be tested.

What protocol would I start with if I was to self administer?

Test c 100mg
Hcg 250iu


#5

50mg E3.5D w/ 250iu HCG EOD would be a good starting point. The sticky suggests starting with 1mg anastrozole spread over the weak as well but I didn’t need it myself on the above.

Honestly even if you could get treatment on the NHS you’d be better self administering and getting bloods done through a private company like medichecks.

The NHS will have you on E12W nebido or E14D sustanon both of which are garbage.

Very few NHS doctors test estradiol, and those that do see being ‘within range’ as adequate - same for test too. 10.0 nmol/l test and 210.00 pmol/L e2 are ‘within range’ but you’ll feel like death.

It took me just short of two years to get prescribed Test E, HCG and anastrozole in the UK and I’m paying out the ass for it. Self prescribing would have been the better option looking back.


#6

Thanks for your reply.

Many guys in the uk have said this to me. It’s sad really and goes to show how the country lacks the knowledge in this area.

I’m due to the Dr Doug Savage who’s earned himself the rights to be called the best TRT specialist In the U.K. anyway. I hope he can sort something out for me.

If you don’t mind me asking how much are you paying for your supplies, are these prescribed by the doctor I assume?

I know I would need arimedex from the start since I have an elevated e2 level as it is. I wonder if this can be causing an issue in itself. My e2 levels were (Serum oestradiol level - 94 pmol/L range 50.00 - 218.00 pomp/L.


#7

Can someone also try and explain to me how my estrogen levels stack up against my other levels?

Serum oestradiol level - 94 pmol/L range 50.00 - 218.00 pomp/L.


#8

I’ve heard good and bad things about Dr Savage. Never used him myself so I cannot comment.

HCG is £3 per 1500iu/ml ampule.
Test E is £30 per 250mg/ml ampule
Anastrozole is £3 for 28x1mg pills

If you’re not happy to pay that price for test e try sustanon first. For me it’s worth the premium as Sust is a pretty poor option. Works fine for some though.

Your E2 is not elevated at all, not sure where you got that idea from. 94 pmol/L = 25 pg/ml which is considered the ideal number by a lot of men. You might actually be on the low side because we only have the standard assay in the UK which almost always overestimates E2. You will not be started on an AI unless your blood work shows high estradiol.


#9

That’s quite a lot you’re paying per month… I paid about 160 for initial doctor consultation then I now pay 12 quid per amp of sustanon.


#10

You from the UK? If so, what doctor do you see/get trt from?


#11

Yeah I’m from London. I’m with Optimale TRT; pretty good value and all online automated system. I started about 8 months ago - I’m also later 20s


#12

Iodine deficiency is common there. Please see ‘oral body temps’ below and follow suggestions.

Test eth is 250mg/ml but whats in the ampule? 1ml?
Please correct…

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.

KSman is simply a regular member on this site. Nothing more other than highly active.

I can be a bit abrupt in my replies and recommendations. I have a lot of ground to cover as this forum has become much more active in the last two years. I can’t follow threads that go deep over time. You need to respond to all of my points and requests as soon as possible before you fall off of my radar. The worse problems are guys who ignore issues re thyroid, body temperatures, history of iodized salt. Please do not piss people off saying that lab results are normal, we need lab number and ranges.

The value that you get out of this process and forum depends on your effort and performance. The bulk of your learning is reading/studying the suggested stickies.


#13

Hi everybody, so I’ve had my consultation with Dr Savage.

My plan is as follows:

Test E: 60mg twice a week
Hcg : 250iu twice a week
Anastrozole: 0.5mg pw

Any thoughts with this guys?

Thanks,


#14

A very standard protocol. That is a good thing


#15

Right so an update for anyone following. The cost of test e is £107 for a pack of three 250mg/1ml. I’m not in a position to absorb this cost neither isit feasible for the long term, well for me anyway…

I’m now changing from test e to suston 250, I still plan on shooting every 3.5 days and will be pinning subcutaneously. Is this ok? Also could someone clarify if I shoot the hcg on the same day? Or should I shoot a different day so that I keep the e2 levels low and stable? It’s important that I keep on top of my e2 and maintain without the use of an ai, even though I have anastrazole on hand.

Any input advice would be much appreciated.


#16

Sorry to say but Sustanon isn’t a good med. The different esters all releasing at different times makes achieving stable test/E2 levels difficult.

Inject EOD with 29g slin pins. Transfer the ampules into sterile vials so you don’t have to preload syringes.

Inject HCG EOD, doesn’t matter what day you choose to inject it if you decide to stick with E3.5D sust.

You’ll need an AI with sust+HCG, don’t wait for levels to get too high before starting one.


#17

Hey,

I am 23 and suffering with ALL the symptoms of borderline low testosterone levels. NHS doctors are totally clueless in relation to accurately diagnosing and treating younger men with these symptoms I find, so I am trying to get TRT with HCG either online in the UK or through a private clinic.

I see you are with Optimale TRT? How did you find them and how much does it cost per month to get TRT? As I want to remain fertile, I would likely want HCG as an adjunct to the Testogel, but can you maybe email me personally with more information about how it all works? It is reassuring to know I’m not the only young guy who is going through this, and even more that there are ways of getting the treatment. If you reply to me on here I will give you my email address as don;t want everyone knowing it!

Hope to hear from you soon and hope your treatment plan is reaping benefits for you.

Best regards,

Joe.


#18

It angers me that people here have to pay such ridiculously high prices for the steroid portion of their therapeutic cocktail.

Why not take a visit to your local gym and discreetly mention that you are on prescription T, but were looking to ‘evaluate your options’. Try not to come across like a policeman (though I know more than a few policemen who use T) and you should receive some advice about who best to ‘score’ from lol.

I make my own testosterone decanoate (I choose decanonate over undecanoate or undecylenate, as a compromise between injection frequency Vs ester weigh) at 500mg/ml, pain free for literally less than £10 per 10ml.

I suggest that people here start to consider doing the same. Of course it may not be your cup of tea (from a moral/legal perspective) but ley me assure you of this: if you can figure out how to drive a car, you can figure out how to brew your own clean, safe, high quality T.


#19

Sustanon is a great med. It doesn’t matter that the esters release at different times, by the 3rd injection the test levels become steady. Think about how separate peaks on a graph over time cumulate.

Also every 3.5D for sustanon is unnecessary for most people, many take it every 7-4 days with no troughs. Remember the main ester in sustanon has a long half life.