T Nation

Ask Physiolojik Thread


sent you an email

I haven’t done a river trip in years, but that’s always a fun time. Last time I went down there, I got suuuuper drunk (still in college) and totally got lost on the river. went down it like an hour past where the rest of my friends got off. Drunk me had to figure out how to find them after.

That’s a few hours from me. I’d definitely meet up with you if you can get to within about an hour of Dallas. Might be able to meet in the middle or something for a meal.


I have no idea about the types of arrythmias, I sometimes just have an irregular heartbeat. I don’t feel it, I just recognized it because the BP device pointed it out and then I felt my pulse with my hand and could notice that the heartbeats weren’t perfectly regular.
In Europe we cycle a lot longer than in the US/UK, but more moderate dosages. A standard beginner cycle here is 8 months 250 test-e/week, whereas in the US its 500 for just 3 months. I also know 2 people who have been on 400mg test/week for 5 years+, without any negative side effects (they get bloods and go to the cardiologist regularly). Therefore, my cycle this year is 8 months with 500mg test-e (if my blood pressure (currently 135/80) and bloods stay in check, I test every 3 months - HK, HDL/LDL, liver all within reference range so far).


@physioLojik When you say “weak upper back” are you referring specifically to the traps? Mine ARE weak. I have started doing some heavier rack pulls in hopes of building them up. Also some heavy farmers walks. I am actively making sure to stretch all everyday.

My shoulders feel good for now, I think that I put too much pressure on them doing dips. I need to reevaluate my form on that. Thanks again.


How it effects people with differ based on lifestyle, workout routine and genetic predisposition, however staying on for so long puts you at a greater risk for serious adverse effects, it simply isn’t smart to run 500mg for 8 months

The body becomes accustomed to the dose and reaches homeostasis in which AR downregulation may occur (reversible) however this also means gains taper out.


regarding health you might be right. regarding gains - are you speaking from personal experience? I do, and last cycle (6 months on 500mg) I’ve made consistend gains throughout the whole time, also strength stats went up almost the same percentages in the last 2 months as in the beginning. receptor downregulation has never been proven as far as i know, just a total bro thing. of course eventually your gains will diminish, there is only so much you can do with 500mg.
I don’t believe 12 weeks on, 6 weeks off, 12 weeks on, 6 weeks off (total 36 weeks) is more beneficial in terms of gains than 24 weeks on, 12 weeks off (also total 36 weeks).


@physioLojik @unreal24278

Hey guys, I’m about at my wit’s end here and need some guidance. I’m experiencing irritability going on 5 days along with depression/no motivation, fatigue and exercise intolerance.

I called Defy up today and I became really frustrated with their suggestions. They told me it sounded like I was experiencing high estrogen symptoms and recommended I take anastrozole. I refused and asked for a blood test to confirm high E2, they obliged. I explained to them that my E2 was 25 the last time I checked and that anastrozole without testing could be disastrous. I asked if I could possibly be experiencing hypogondal symptoms due to only injecting 10mg ED. They said it was possible and that a free T in the low 20’s would be ideal. They then pushed HCG and told me things like “to get your free T up you should really try the HCG.” I mean, this doesn’t sound correct, can’t you just do that by increasing your test dosage? Am I missing something? They also said I could start T3 meds based on my thyroid labs. They explained that my higher-end reverse T3 indicated to them that I was in fact suffering from hypothyroidism rather then hyper.

Does any of this make sense? I’ll have my lab results tomorrow and I can post them. Here are my last labs on the aforementioned systems for reference:


Reverse t3: 20.7 Range 8-25
T3 free: 3.7 Range 2.3-4.2
T4 free: 1.77 Range .89-1.76 HIGH
TSH: .536 Range .55-4.76. LOW
Thyroid Peroxidase abs: <28.0 Range <60
Thyroglobulin abs: 23.4 Range <60


Total Test: 527 Range 229-902
Free T: 16.4 Range 4.4-16.8
E2 Sensitive: 25 Range 0-40
SHBG: 13.7 Range 14.55-94.64 LOW


Over time to seek homeostasis the body will desensitize androgen receptors, much the same way the body does with dopamine receptors to addicts on cocaine or insulin in diabetics.


Update: E2 came back at 45, that explains this horrible depression and lack of motivation. Should I be skipping shots to bring this down and how quickly will that work? If I call Defy they’re just going to tell me to take the anastrozole I have on hand.

If anyone could help out with this I’d be grateful. I have a very long week of work starting tomorrow and I can barely function.

@alphagunner @systemlord @charlie12 @NH_Watts


How long on this protocol?


8 weeks this Thursday on 10mg ED.


I mean at 527 you may still be suffering from low T symptoms I imagine. Has there been talk of increasing you dose over 70mg a week? Maybe with a higher total T you will feel better. Just thinking here man.


I hear you man, I was thinking of increasing the dose but that E2 reading made me pause on those thoughts. The labs for test and E2 up there are about a month old. I actually haven’t received my free-T and total T readings from today, I’ll most likely get them tomorrow.

As far as increasing the dose, wouldn’t the E2 just rise more with the higher test levels?


45 isnt crazy high. Maybe the ratio of e2 to estrogen is the issue? I’ve been higher than 45 and felt great but my tt was closer to 1000 ng/dl…


I had pretty severe symptoms once when I was at 967 TT with an E2 of 47. That ratio gave me severe panic attacks but right now it’s crippling depression. For a few days before this it was extreme irritability. No idea if it’s my low shbg making it affect me like this or what.

It also makes no sense to me why my E2 is this high while my dose is low. I haven’t received the TT and FT results yet but I’m sure they’re not anywhere close to the 900’s. Obviously low-dose ED shots are not working for me even though I have low shbg. No idea where to go from here.


Yeah the 967 and 47 are good numbers. Nothing wrong there. You have other problems


Just food for thought. You are getting pretty good levels at 70 a week.

Did you ever try something like 40mg 2x a week?

Not to confuse you more. Cypionate at Ed makes no sense to me.

I would not even take 1 ai pill. If you want to lower the estrogen which you may not have to, you can inject 6mg for 2 days. Just saying


Not yet, since my last 200mg every other week failure (terrible protocol, I know) I thought I’d go the exact opposite direction with lower doses more frequently, looks like that isn’t working either.

Not confusing, I know with the long half-life it almost doesn’t make sense, but I figured I’d try the more frequent, lower doses since my shbg is so low. Looks like my answer is either somewhere in the middle or entirely in a other area altogether. I’m pretty discouraged at this point and wondering if I’m going to end up on an AI eventually. I really don’t want to take one but my body seems to convert at such a high rate.


This is frustrating. You are getting closer to what you will need…

I went through the same shit.

Injecting ever 10 days. Than 8 . Then 7. Felt good at 1x a week. But kept reading 2x a week is better so that’s where am at . Played with very low dose ai that put me on rollercoasters. After I stopped ai and did same protocol for 2 months I felt stable


Dunno how you did this with kids man, it’s insane. Mine is due soon and I’m freaking out. The way I present on this forum when I’m having hormone issues is very unlike my real-life persona and that’s frustrating to me. I’m a strong willed person but these hormones reduce me to a whining child.

Anyway, thanks for the words of encouragement. When I was on eod shots my E2 only rose to 34. The question I’m asking myself is if I’d remained on that protocol would my E2 have continued to climb anyway or did the new ED protocol mess me up.


So Dr Sir. I have the ability to legitimately get a prescription for various peptides and even SARMS if I so choose. In you’re professional opinion, is it worth going for the script or should I simply leave it. Granted I certainly don’t require these extras in order to make accruations in muscle mass, the fact that I’m able to get these prescribed with associated close monitering and supervision from a medical professional makes me quite comfortable with the idea of said peptides. Granted these substances very well may not be safe. The peptides I have available to me are

  • GHRP (all types), I actually wouldn’t mind trying GHRP-6 if my glucose tolerance was alright, granted I don’t exactly need a surplus of GH given my age.
  • cjc 1295 (wouldn’t take this due to risk of overstimulating pituitary)
  • IGF-1 LR3 (no ways in hell would I take this… Ever)
  • Tb-500 (would totes take this, interested in its cardioregenerative abilities)
  • Enbosarm (ostarine), not particularly interested
  • LDG-4033, not interested
  • MGF (nope… Never)

The way I see it, use of GHRP’s would very likely exacerbate any existing LVH that I could potentially develop over the next few years. Aside from that the major concerns appear to be

  • neurotoxicity
  • elevated prolactin and cortisol (stimulates ACTH and prolactin release)
  • extremely impaired glucose tolerance
  • enlarged heart
  • carcinogenic nature’s of said compounds

I apologize if this post comes across as if I’m being irresponsible, that isn’t the intention, I’m simply looking at various options I have and weighing the pros and cons to see whether said options are worth it. I’m aware these are relatively new, unresearched chemicals. The peptide I’m most particularly interested in due to potential cardioregenerative abilities is TB-500. I’m not in a rush/hurry, nor do I need/ have a particular urge to start shoving peptides into myself, however the concept of peptide therapy in itself is rather interesting.

I’m not looking for a seal of approval or something along those lines, however I do wish to know you’re opinion on the topic (the only reason I’d even consider this is due to the fact I’m able to get a legitimate script + monitering.)