T Nation

Ask Physiolojik Thread


#405

I am happy to hear you (semi) figured out what was causing your problems! At least you know where to start to narrow it down.
Sometimes it’s the “other” ingredients that can get ya. I am highly sensitive to aspartame. It took me a looong time to figure it out when I was younger. How could a piece of chewing gum mess with you right?

I know you are busy. I know NOTHING about AAS, SARMs or any of this. But, being on this forum for years I find it all interesting. Not sure why, but I keep reading…lol One of the first replies I got on my first log was… that a little Anavar would fix me right up. Didn’t have any idea what it was. Googled it, and thought Wow! Not sure I am ready for that. Now I think he might have been right all along…lol
Too bad I didn’t start this sooner in my life, I would have tried it!

Thanks for your reply. Glad you are feeling better. Good luck on your exams!


#406

Curious, which supplements you were taking?

Glad you are feeling better anyhow (;


#407

I’m also very interested in keeping up to date on this mater too. Doctors in the the UK are just shocking. It’s near impossible finding someone who knows what they are doing here.

@physioLojik I see Dr Chrysler does a consultation only appointment on the phone. Would be awesome if you could do something similar for international patients.


#408

Man I was taking a ton

  • coq-10
  • l-carnitine
  • NAC
  • milk thistle
  • Curcumin
  • multivitaminz
  • hawthorn berriez
  • grapeseed extract
  • vitamin C
  • red yeast rice briefly (because one of my coq-10 bottles was mixed with it)

Was anxiety based, wanted to cover every possible issue on every possible angle, was likely far more counterproductive than it was helpful now that I think of it, too many antioxidants can also be harmful

I dropped all the dietary supps like four or five days ago and haven’t had a single issue since. I do take cinnamon for blood sugar tho and because I like the smell


#409

Yeet, thanks, and due to me figuring out the issue in the distant future I can once again experiment with bodybuilding drugs in the distant future like an irresponsible idiot! Life is GREAT!!! That being said next time I do anything I’ll have a doctor monitering me or potentially even prescribing me what I want because when I’m 18 I’ll be able to travel overseas to visit the various clinics I know of.

What do you want Anavar for? Is it to regain lean mass that you’ve lost due to hyperthyroidism? I can’t reccomend you take it, but I will say this, I took it at 25mg/day for like four weeks because I was curious (this was like five months ago) it gave me hypertension (stage 1-2), made me strong (I’m stronger now) and I looked like a rock though, an average sized rock. Androgens can put strain on the thyroid, potentially decreasing thyroid output, however the effect is subclinical. Anavar will probably do a number of you’re lipids, however an indication for prescribing it includes “as adjunct therapy to aid in weight gain from disease, illness or unexplained reasons” so if you have a progressive enough doc you can probably get script for it, I can’t say it won’t help you gain muscle mass… Because it will haha, however it’s a powerful hormone that needs to be treated with respect. Due to its impact on the lipid profile (very harsh on lipids) i’d think a practitioner would probably limit its use to a few months.

If you get a medical practitioner to prescribe you some Anavar, the overall long term risk (providing use is short term) is low (in my opinion). Anavar from what I recall is expensive though. I WISH someone would’ve prescribed me a low dose of var (like 2.5-5mg/day) when I was 10-11-12, a few studies have shown that in low doses it may increase final adult height due to the highly disproportionate anabolic to androgenic ratio of the drug, and the anabolic characteristics of AAS include stimulation of linear bone growth, while study results have been conflicting, it does seem as if it helps in many cases, and if I couldn’t get HGH (I was JUST under the requirement) I’dve rather taken var over ARIMIDEX (was prescribed 1mg/day, was on for like 2 years or so and it caused a lot of issues that still plague me today).


#410

i’ve been blasting and cruising for about a year using Arimidex .5mg EOD… but reading this im thinking of switching over Tamoxifen… what are the mg doses i should be using with it


#411

Thanks @unreal24278 Yeah, it would be nice to have a little help getting back where I was, but I’ll just have to keep at it the old fashion way. The Dr I went to doesn’t even want to see me again to test my T3/T4 pretty sure he wouldn’t go for prescribing anything that would help. Well, he did mention beta blockers and prednisone, IF I have another thyroid storm. The point of seeking help was to not have another storm… duh!
Oh well! Thanks for the info! Me and my anxiety will be quiet now :grin:


#412

You should seek help from a well reviewed endocrinologist @ChickenLittle


#413

I think people underestimate the power of supplements. Anyway it’s good news for you that you have figured out what was causing the issue. Im actually taking more than I think I should be if I’m honest. NAC, Selenium, D3, Ubiquinol, Coq10, Folate, L-Dopa, Calcium, Magnesium, Zinc, Fish Oil… Shit it does look a lot when I list everything!

I read a while back you suffer with joint pain. Just wondering how you are dealing with that now you are not taking any supplements anymore. Didn’t you try Nandrolone a while back? Did that help your joints? I’m considering trying Nandrolone because my joints are quite bad at the moment, but I am pretty worried about some of the sides some suffer with. Also concerned about prolactin as I read that people with Raynaud’s should avoid Cabergoline. (I have Raynaud’s)


#414

Yeh I wouldn’t use caber with Raynaud’s (or without Raynaud’s haha), I’d assume the contradiction between the two lies within the fact that cabergoline, being an ergot derivitave can cause/attentuate vasoconstriction, however I could be wrong, that’s me just using my brain to think logically.

I did use nandrolone for joint pain, maybe for like 3-4 weeks, I noticed a large benefit about 1.5 weeks in, however that’s just me, the stance on nandrolone helping with joint pain appears to be mostly anecdotal aside from a few animal studies showing improved healing rates of connective tissue and joints following injury. Whether or not it actually helps I don’t know, however I do know it helped for me, far too much to be placebo. I stopped using it as I was scared of the potential long term consequences the drug would have on my cardiovascular system (specifically heart). Besides that I never noticed any side effects with regards to mood, sexual function or energy, but I was only using around 90mg/wk. As a matter of fact I felt pretty good on nandrolone.

My joints still suck, however they’re far, FAR better than what they used to be. I’ve found frequent physical exercise, both in the gym and cardiovascular exercise wise tends to come a long way with regard to helping with joint pain. That being said I do wish my shoulders, knees, back, neck and ankle (one of them, the one with screws in) would hurt less.

Edit (a day later): actually my joints, muscles and whatnot have been hurting quite a bit over the past few days


#415

Welcome to my hell.


#416

Issue with dietary supps are that it isn’t properly regulated, due to the lack of testing on nutritional/dietary supplements you never really know what you’re getting, I remember a while back when vitamin B-12 supps or some similar vitamins were being spiked with dimethazine (very potent designer steroid, wouldn’t touch that shit with a 9000 foot pole), statistically a large portion of dietary supplements contain ingredients not listed on the label, granted some supplements are more likely to be tainted than others, supplements that claim to promote sexual enhancement (erections, libido etc), energy boosts (pre-workouts) and muscle building (test-boosters, other muscle building products in pill form) and fat burning are the most likely to be spiked. Typically sexual enhancement supps when spiked tend to contain PDE5 inhibitors, pre workouts that are spiked tend to have amphetamine like stimulants (although plenty of stimulants are still legal I believe), test boosters, products that claim to built up muscle may have designer steroids, pro-hormones or SARM’s (hell on eBay here and in online supplement stores in Aus a ton of supps have designer steroids, a store or two (not giving names) sells SARM’s OTC), granted it doesn’t really count as spiking if they’re on the ingredient label. Fat burners that are spiked tend to be spiked with amphetamines and stimulants instead of herbal blends haha.

On the UGL steroid scene, labs are reviewed, if a lab gets a bad rap, for sterility, underdosed or faking products, they go out of business, if a supplement company spikes their supps they get away with it because no one is really reviewing supps, they’re OTC therefore people just assume they’re ok (hell even I sometimes think, if it’s legal, how bad can it be, then I look at the label and it’s like (methylstenbolone 10mg, dimethazine 10mg, methylepitiostanol 20mg) per capsule and I’m like noooooooppppeeee. The truth is, supplements/ legal compounds can be just as harmful, if not worse than their illigal, scheduled counterpart, many of the supplements on the market have very little research to measure the safety of effiency of the ingredients.

I’ve read about you’re issue with dietary supplements, @alphagunner steer clear of arimistane haha, it’s a suicidal AI sold OTC as a test booster/ aromatase blocker, looks like joint pain and osteoporosis in a pill to me. Supposedly it’s a metabolite of boldenone though, interesting stuff, I don’t know all that much about boldenone aside from the chemical structure and what it does. Boldenone doesn’t interest me as it seems like it’s a structurally modified, less androgenic of testosterone with a higher potential for mental and haematological side effects.


#417

I DID use it for a little while, only shortly though. Good to know its garbage.

It was touted as a “milder ai” on a few websites.


#418

@physioLojik would you suggest treatment with these thyroid numbers and if so what dosage?

Thank you.


Advice on TRT Protocol
#419

I wouldn’t say it’s garbage, if you want to destroy your estrogen production then it’s a great drug, or I guess if you’re prepping for a bodybuilding competition and want to dry out a bit (there’s better ways to do this) one might see some benefit.

I’m actually curious as to which dietary supplement caused my issues, because that was a serious issue it caused me that practically disappeared overnight with the ceceasion of supplement intake.


#420

@unreal24278 as a follow-up, I still haven’t gotten any new panels done, but I was wondering if there are any additional takeaways one can make from the numbers that I posted Ask Physiolojik Thread Especially, it would feel comforting to know what the numbers are saying with regards to how a treatment should look like so that when the/a doctor presents a treatment plan I can evaluate their suggestion.

I’m just making things up here, but let’s be kind and say that they skip over Testogel and Nebido and say they want to start with weekly injections or something. Then, as far as I understand it weekly injections are too far apart for me to have any real balance with regards to my levels. But beyond that, let’s say that with my SHBG I’d be in need of some other compound (I don’t think so, but I’m not sure…).

Is it possible to follow my line of thinking?


#421

The notion that SHBG levels have anything to do with injection frequency (in my opinion) is a phallacy, I shoot e7D, my SHBG has ranged from 13-30 I believe (also goes to show how much levels of this particular transport protein can fluctuate between blood tests), e7d is fine for me, however it’s different for everyone, I can even stretch it out to every 10-12 days and feel alright (so long as the dose is high enough to avoid me crashing, so let’s say I did 300-350mg every 12 days, I’d be fine), granted the higher peaks over time would likely lead to a higher chance of haematological complications (but still I doubt my HCT would climb over 55%). There is nowhere in medical literature where it states testosterone injection frequency is dictated by SHBG

Granted depending on what doctor you go see you might not get TRT, It took me the better part of to slightly over a year to get TRT (due to stigma against the drug and my age) when it was concluded that my testosterone production wasn’t going to come back the plunge was taken. You’re doc might order more bloods, and based on the bloods, potentially a pituitary ultrasound, testicular ultrasound etc. Actually I had the option as a last ditch effort to get a testicular biopsy and I was like “no” because… No. Remember a good doctor will be more focused on finding a way to reverse the issue rather than just throw medication at it

So that being said you might require more frequent injections. However, in MY opinion, and mine alone, the idea of ED or EOD shots with test C or test E is silly, the half life of the drugs don’t dictate such frequent injections, I’ve seen the arguement “well testosterone naturally fluctuates in a daily circadian rhythm” and I’m thinking "yes but testosterone certainly doesn’t fluctuate the way it would from ED or EOD shots of long estered test, the fluctuation there is so minimal, if you want to mimick natural circadian rhythms use test prop, TNE or oral testosterone (however oral test U isn’t great in terms of cost and effectiveness compared to shots, methyltestosterone and fluoxymesteorone when used long term can have consequences regarding hepatotoxicity, however at replacement doses I do believe it’s overexxagerated), then I’ll say “yea, ED dosing is probs best” hell oral methyltestosterone I’d even say yoi could take two times daily due to the HL, but test E or C, you can do ED or EOD but it’s just a pain in the ass. I could be wrong though, very possible some people do require it for some reason (like being extremely sensitive to hormonal fluctuations)

@Allberg


#422

Okay, interesting. And good to know! Was thinking that their suggested injection frequency would be a good indicator of their know-how.

Well, it seems more like they want me on exogenous testosterone already but I feel that due diligence hasn’t been done here. The only thing that concerns me is the possibility of infertility, as I someday want my own kids, but I understand that hCG can mitigate (not eliminate?) the risk.

Also noted.

But, given the bloods I have presented, if we move to treatment then test C/E and something to maintain fertility would be a decent starting point?


#423

To maintain fertility you need to know whether you are fertile to begin with. Due to both my mother and my father having fertility issues (was concieving IFV, born extremely premature at 6 and 1/2 months due to complications I’m not going into) coupled with my hypogonadism in which LH and FSH were still in low normal to mid range having been on TRT for 6 months (LH and FSH were normal prior to TRT as well, however for some reason testosterone replacement didn’t supress my gonadotropins, hinting at what could be partly a primary issue) the chances of me being fertile in the first place weren’t great. You should make sure you’re fertile, secondly you can always freeze sperm, it’s an effective way of forever having a way to pass off you’re genetic information when needed lol. HCG seems to have its own set of side effects, plus I originally though LH receptor desensitization was a myth but physiologik mentioned it before he left to Asia and I didn’t get a concrete response (understandably haha because he’s overseas and busy) but it seemed like he said LH receptor desensitization was real (I’ve only seen rat studies proving it to be true). Thirdly, if you’re fertile, TRT is not guaranteed to make you azoospermic, and I can link a study that had a few hundred people and it showed recovery of spermatogenesis in those in TRT for secondary hypogonadism is 100%, it may take up to two years though. I’m sure there’s some cases in which fertility never recovers (especially after prolonged high dose abuse of anabolic steroids), however it appears the VAST majority recover anyway, so I wouldn’t be particularly worried. If you are, like I said, just freeze some sperm.


#424

Yeah definitely going to check if I’m fertile to begin with, no reason to be alarmed about the potential side-effect if I’m already infertile.