T Nation

Ask Physiolojik Thread


What @physioLojik thinks everytime we ask him a question :joy:



Lol lol no sir. @studhammer. I live with three women. I cry in movies all the time. I’d probably just give you a hug and tell you it’ll be ok.


3 women? Do you know what DEFCON 3 is? If not, see video :joy:


@studhammer haha I actually like it. We make quite a group walking down the street. Can’t believe we have a boy on the way. Haha. He’s the poor guy I worry for.


We have 3 daughters and 1 boy. He’s the youngest. Sometimes I swear it’s like he has 4 moms. Haha


hey @physioLojik, are you alright? I saw the post on the guy who tried to report you, that’s some scary stuff man. I hesitate to ask for the fear of it being an innapropriate question but is there going to be a potential consequence to your career from this asshole getting the board involved and all? I can’t believe this actually happened, it’s fucking absurd to think someone would waste so much time just to rat out an individual giving others legitimtate advice.

Also I apologize to bother you again but nine days ago I injected my tricep with pharm grade test E right, then seven days later I did it again (albeit with a much lower amount, like .3 ml into the left one and the rest into the right one), while this is a rather idiotic thing to do let me explain my reasoning. My body has never responded well (with regard to adverse post injection reactions with primoteston or sustanon), I always get massive swelling when I pin my ass, delts, thighs, or even sub Q, I’ve never had this issue with UGL test C, TNE or test prop (although test prop leaves red welts, so I’d rather the swelling). Pharm grade sustanon, the first time I took it gave me a raised lump so large it hurt to walk for about a week, actually I think it might’ve an abcess as it was raised, slightly reddened and warm (and yea I’m aware of the consequences involved, I sought advice from a medical professional however it started to go down around the day after I sought advice so I didn’t worry). Anyhow my incredibly irresponsible brain thought “well if I can pin my shoulders, glutes and thighs and it swells up, why not my triceps, they’re the part that lags most and a temporary swelling would look cool”, well this time it reaaaallllly swelled up on the left one, and my brachioradiallis seems swollen too, it’s mildly red and warm (doesn’t look good), I thought “shit maybe I’ve got cellulitis or something” however it doesn’t nessecarily match the look, it just looks like extreme inflammation, now I have a high pain tolerance, but this is fucking painful man, I have to really use force to bend my left arm, because it hurts, I’m worried about the potential for developing compartment syndrome. I sought advice from a medical professional, if it continues to swell I’ll have to check into hospital, which sucks, I’ll be honest and say I’m hesitant to check into the emergancy room, because I’m worried they’ll test my blood testosterone concentration, find a level of like 1200 and be like “that’s not TRT” and then they’d phone my endo who’d agree and I’d have to go UGL for life (wouldn’t exactly be a bad thing, cheaper and doesn’t give the adverse reactions, but the potential consequences with the law aren’t worth it" and I don’t want to have “anabolic steroid abuser” on my record. I should add my heart rate is elevated, quite a bit… While this sounds bad I don’t have a fever, headache, muscle weakness or anything, I do feel a bit uncomfortable though (probs due to elevated HR). If something really bad happens… well I guess my username will cease to post on this forum. I’d assume my body doesn’t like whatever is in the carrier oil of primoteston. Was hesitant to ask this question in fear of judgement, but judge away if you must because I totally fucked up, I aside from my first shot of sus the swelling has never been serious, just noticable so I didn’t expect this to happen. Just bad luck I guess, my injection practices are relatively sterile, I use alcohol swabs (well what I have is rubbing alcohol or something similar that I put on a tissue to swab the injection site), I typically aspirate, I don’t reuse needles or syringes, I wear gloves, I have a sharps container for used needles and syringes.


@unreal24278 hey man. First off no worries about asking me anything - nothing is going to happen to me :slight_smile:

Second off - no way would I judge you. It sounds like a bad reaction to the oil bro. Granted it’s tough to judge without seeing the site, but if you aren’t running a fever etc I wouldn’t worry. Give it a few days. Throw some heat on the area (heating pads work as do socks filled with rice and tied and heated in the microwave). This kind of stuff has happened to me with certain compounds in the quad.


Yea, if my UGL is accurately dosed, it might actually better for me to use the UGL grade stuff for TRT (without telling my doctor of course), because as shady as that sounds, if the UGL test C is accurately dosed, (I don’t have any type of adverse reaction to it unlike primoteston). Long term I’d probably be looking at less fibrous tissue build up too. I’m taking a few days off gym wise, as my HR was 144 walking earlier, when it’s usually in the 80’s or 90s while I walk and 60’s and occasionally 50s when resting unless I eat a ton of sugar/carbs, then it can get real bad and I get tired, dizzy and lie down, currently 90s resting. Then again the doctor would probably notice if I stopped picking up scripts.

I did undermine the site a bit because I didn’t want judgement, it’s visibly red and very warm, however given the absence of a fever I don’t think it’s anything serious, just worried about developing compartment syndrome (and contrary to what many doctors who I go to think, I’m not a google doctor, I don’t just search up conditions or potential complications lol, I have a limited (yet broader than most non educated people) amount of knowledge in pharmacy and medicine because I’m interested in it. Anyhow thanks for the response, I’ll make myself a heat pack now.


@unreal24278 don’t you think the increased heart rate is perhaps a stress reaction to your worry about your injection site? A lot of ppl don’t take into account anxiety about suspected conditions and that affect on things like HR/BP.

The chances of you getting compartment syndrome from an injection are insanely low. Compartment is generally a condition that manifests after acute force trauma. What you have is a bad reaction to an injection that will subside in probably 5/7 days :slight_smile: not to worry brother.


potentially, however I wear a watch that moniters my heart rate 24/7 (also counts steps, calories burned etc) and my HR shot up about 12 hours post shot, and significantly so, even stayed elevated in my sleep (didn’t drop below 70), however I will admit there’s a good chance anxiety plays a role with regard to some extent

Just because the chances are insanely low doesn’t mean I don’t worry about it lol, I worry about tons of low risk things (hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, getting hit by a bus and then becoming a vegetable, trying marijuana again one day and then having a psychotic breakdown, getting the flu/common cold and then developing myocarditis and dying, getting a failing grade on an exam etc). I never used to be this anxious though, I actually used to be very impulsive and irresponsible in my preeteen through early teen years, it seems to have progressively gotten worse as I’ve gotten older. (the anxiety)

I send my sympathies to you about the guy who called the medical board, that must’ve been gut wrenching when you found out (that shitty butterflies in stomach type feeling you get when you find out something bad has happened to a relative/ family member or someone starts a fight with you. Adrenaline/ cortisol related I believe)


@physioLojik It’s good to see you back. I haven’t started TRT, though I am contemplating it. Do you know of any cases where TRT hasn’t had a positive effect on a person’s mood, energy, and muscle development? What medical conditions, if any, would make TRT a bad idea?

Is it true TRT affects neurotransmitters, the adrenals, and the thyroid? There’s a lot of noise about the pros and cons of TRT and it’s hard to find definite answers. Do you recommend any books or other websites? Thank you!


@mikebarnes trt managed well isn’t contraindicated for anyone really. Perhaps if you’re had prostate cancer or had a stroke it’s impoetant to manage it very closely.

You touched on something very crucial. TRT affects every neurotransmitter as well as thyroid and adrenals. When guys jump on test and then find themselves exhausted, they assume it’s estrogen. No. Never.

It is typically testosterone’s effect on the adrenal glands. To combat this we suggest 2g vitamin c a day and low caffeine use. Higher testosterone also can cause the thyroid to ramp up work which in some guys actually makes them sleepy. People assume hyperthyroid feelings are always anxiety etc. no. The biggest recommendation is SLOW changes. No more than one drug change every 6/8 weeks. That includes dosage changes etc.


For how long?

And if you can see my post a few up. That would be awesome .

Edit. No longer a few up. Haha.


About how long should it take to see results, e.g. muscle growth and energy, on a properly managed protocol? I’m sort of in disbelief of all the guys who talk about feeling like superman and having unlimited energy, especially since I have struggled with low energy for a long time.

Would trt ramp up the adrenals and thyroid even in people who have some kind of autoimmune condition?


Hey Doc, After some more research, I’m beginning to think I have sleep apnea. I rarely sleep through the night. Both my wife and I snore. She says I frequently stop breathing altogether. As I’ve gained more weight (30 lbs in 4 years) my snoring has gotten worse.

I’m going to look into treatment options including sinuplasty.

Any thoughts @physioLojik


Cpap machine is cheaper and is typically covered by insurance, however traveling with a CPAP machine can be annoying (although they do have mini poofy ones you can rent for travelling). Sorry to hear about the potential sleap apnea, can really make you tired throughout the day (I don’t have sleep apnea, but it sucks)


@studhammer My friend’s dad has pretty bad sleep apnea. He has tried just about everything including CPAP machines. The only thing that really worked for him and what he is currently using is one of those mouth pieces. Helped him tremendously. Just throwing my 2 cents in.


I don’t want to appear as if I’m disagreeing with you here (because I have nowhere near the knowledge base you have) but wouldn’t TRT be contradicted in patients with severe adrenal insufficiency, morbidly, MORBIDLY obese people, people with pre-existing cardiovascular disease or cardiac abnormalities (like would you give a dude with marfan syndrome TRT or a guy with like an… 84.453253452 percent blockage in one of his coronary arteries) @physioLojik

Just trying to learn new stuff, not argue (the previous guy neronroids said I was arguing for the sake of arguing, I wasn’t intending to argue, I was correcting what I percieved to be false information, in this case I’m trying to learn new things)

I thought I’d post some pics of the injection site (one arm vs the other)

Alright so the non inflammed arm (like no reaction at all) looks like this

Arms totally internally rotated as to get full view of tricep

The inflammed arm (inflammation died down substantially since yesterday, used a lot of NSAIDS, heat packs, ice, rest (naproxen, yea they’re cardiotoxic, bad for the stomach lining but I used to take like 12+ of them a day back in my chronic pain days, I have a swell tolerance to them)

Now as you can see, my triceps insert very high up on my arm and my tendons appear to be long (despite my wingspan being shorter than my height), EVERYTHING is more developed than my triceps and it irritates the shit out of me because triceps are one of the more showy muscles, there isn’t anything I can really do about it though, I’m going to see if getting a stronger bench helps, as you rarely see a guy with small triceps benching 405, I’m not sure how I’m gonna go about this though as I don’t want to overtly strain my rotator cuff a. I thought to myself “maybe higher doses will help” but then I thought “if 250mg doesn’t get my triceps significantly bigger, but everything else grows then no dose will make my tris that much bigger” and also the risks aren’t worth it for a bit of vanity lol. @physiolojik

Is it appropriate for me to post these pics on here?

To avoid this issue in the future I’m going to either
A: switch to injecting smaller amounts every 7 days (say if it was 250mg/ml I’d do .25 ml in the left glute .25ml in the right one, .25 ml in my left delt and .25ml in the right one. That being said I got this bad reaction from only .3ml (I tend to have bad reactions wherever I inject pharma grade primoteston, but this one was extreme)
B: switch to UGL test C which doesn’t give me a bad reaction at all
C: use methyltestosterone or fluoxymesteorone (terrible idea long term) although the majority of the reports I saw linked to Pelosis hepatis, hepatocellular carcinoma and whatnot were with patients being treated with 150mg/day long term (methyltestosterone) and 20mg+ long term (fluoxymesteorone) however then there’s the altered lipid profile aspect and the whole never being able to enjoy a drink aspect that puts me off. Also methyltestosterone requires overseas importation which ends up in me potentially getting into trouble, fluoxymesteorne doesn’t aromatise, I need my estrogen…
D: TRESTOLONE (just kidding, this would be beyond a terrible idea)
E: look for another way to maintain adequate testosterone levels (not really possible, the gels didn’t work for me, test u sucks as the injection protocals for it is spaced like 4 half lives apart, testoPEL is hit or miss and it’s a hassle, the docs here if they decide to do it do like a small implant every 6 months (trt is terrible here) other things like the patch require daily application and I can’t exercise/ sweat for a while with them on, and they more than likely won’t give me a TT above 400ish plus they’re way more expensive (not that money is a problem, but I’d rather spend and get more ya know)

On a side note I find it impossible to isolate the lateral head of my triceps. I was thinking of training heavier for a while and seeing what it nets me, I’m more comfortable with regards to what my body can handle and what it can’t, and eating more carbs again seems to have curbed my joint pain significantly, so I guess I’ll just have to eat a lot of low GI carbohydrates. The exercise I have the most issue with is the incline bench press, I’ve been doing mostly pump related training for the past eight months or so, and while I’ve gotten stronger, I do believe that strength somewhat correlates with muscle size (not entirely, but somewhat) and keeping my rep ranges in the 10-25 range might be shortchanging me a bit. Hell I can only deadlift like 150kg (this is a 1RM) I can’t even bench 100kg, I can’t overhead press more than 70kg. I think I’ll give some heavier training a shot. For instance, my current back workout might look a bit like this

Pull up (bodyweight) 3x10
Lat pulldown 3x12-15
Machine row/Row variant 3-4x12
Rear delt lat raise 3x25
Pullover machine (I have no issue with exercises that require a lot of mobility because I’m super mobile) 3x20-30
Cable concentration curl 3x12
Barbell curl (however many sets it takes to get to 100 reps with a specific weight, say I’ll do 2x35 then 1x 30)
hammer curl 3x15
Forearm curl 3x20 superset with standing reverse forearm curl 3x10 superset with reverse forearm curls 3x10
Cardio 30 mins

So I was thinking something like
Deadlift 5x3
Lat pulldown 3x10
Row 3x6
pullover 3x20 (I like this exercise)
Hammer curls 5x12
regular forearm workout (because I like working forearms, I do it like 3x/wk)

I was wondering if training a bit heavier would be beneficial for me with regards to muscle size, density, hardness etc. For Deadlifts, squats etc I have a really good belt that I haven’t worn in years, however I dislike the notion of using a belt because I’m worried it might weaken my transverse abdominis and other core stabilizers, sorry about the long post, you’re the only person I can come to for advice lol, I need bodybuilder friends in real life, but it’s suprisingly hard to find kids into bodybuilding, given it’s all about vanity it should’t be so hard lol.

I thought id also add this. Other than animal studies, is there any more evidence that nandrolone is overall more detrimental to cardiac function than test? I’ve seen the study in which nandrolone killed endothelial cells at a faster rate than test, but then again the concentration was 9+ micromolar, therefore the concentration is unrealistic. If cardiac dysfunction (well one of the proposed mechanisms of AAS induced cardiac dysfunction) is due to activation/ binding to the androgen receptors in cardiac myocytes, wouldn’t the more androgenic steroids (testosterone, fluoxymesteorone, drostanolone etc), do more damage long term than nandrolone, I’m aware there’s far more than just AR binding involved like oxidive stress, artery stiffening and increased vasospastic potential for whatever reason. But other than the rodent/animal models, have you seen in practice that nandrolone causes more harm than other drugs? And if AR binding was a big factor into the cardiotoxic actions of anabolic androgenic steroids (aside from liver, estrogen, altered lipid profiles, blood pressure and various other issues) wouldn’t DBOL be relatively safe if one could keep his health markers under control on it. I don’t suppose there is an answer though, the drugs aren’t particularly well studied


Hey Phys, this thread’s huge so apologies if you’ve already covered this:

What do you think about the supposed increased risk of hepatic adenoma caused by high oestrogen?



Thought this might be of interest to you as you have MS. It’s written by a good friend of mine and I personally found it very moving. https://overcomingms.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=113&t=7401&hilit=Paul