T Nation

Ask Physiolojik Thread


OMG! You crack me up ‘n :rofl::rofl::rofl: @newbvet


Mkay I apologize for all these questions, esp when you’re busy, but… You’re the only person I have to ask these questions lol.

So over the past… I want to say two weeks my joint pain has started to become… pretty bad during workouts again, and the musculoskeletal (non-joint related) pain is even becoming annoying again when I’m not doing anything. Anyway today it was bad enough that I couldn’t finish my workout (legs). I’m aware it’s impossible to give definite advice because you don’t know me but I’m in a bit of a conundrum. If it keeps going this way I have to give up deadlifting, stiff legged deadlifts, hack squats, bench press, skull crushers, squats, leg press, anything overhead and certain calf exercises (screws in ankle) running/ long walks, which leaves me… Unsatisfied


@unreal24278 during the cutting process have you drastically dropped your carbs? remember without carbs your joints will dry out a lot. I remember you said that you were carb intolerant so if you dropped them lots that’s why


yes, I did significantly reduce my carbohydrate intake, both for the cut and due to the fact I’m carbohydrate intolerant, I could up my carbs again, but I need to keep eating in a caloric deficit, which can probs be done. I can eat carbohydrates, but only complex carbs with a low glycemic index. Thanks for the advice, I’ll re-evaluate my lower carbohydrate intake.


@unreal24278 have you done a food sensitivity test? That would be a smart move right now. No one is fully carb intolerant. I think we need to see what your body likes and doesn’t like.


Unreal, What is the cause of your pain? Is it systemic like rheumatoid arthritis or related to a particular accident, or overuse?
For some of those exercises you mentioned a little tweak in technique can do wonders, like squatting whilst initiating from the hips, rather than with the knees. Same again for upper body exercises, initiating the movement from the scapula.
You also have foam rolling, stretching, some massage therapies to help loosen up the muscles. If your not doing these already you a selling yourself short.

You may remember from earlier posts that I suffer from chronic fatigue/fibromyalgia symptoms. I wanted to stay away from the risk of deca dick. I used EQ instead of Deca to increase the anabolic and joint cushioning effect, without, being too androgenic, like an all test cycle can be. I found it really helped with the joint pain. The muscles and joint really loosened up to the point where I could do most exercises without joint pain.
If you don’t get deca dick, you should probably go back on it, for quality of life. Long term risks are possible, but are they worse than a miserable life where you are in pain all the time?


I’ve been found to be fructose and glucose intolerant, I’ll see what I can do about a food sensitivity test, I know chocolate, baclava, cheesecake gives me a really bad stomach… not to say I don’t eat those treats occasionally, sometimes it’s worth sitting on a toilet grimacing for a few hours

I was diagnosed with this, that’s the cause of my widespread muskuloskeletal pain, however the JOINT pain is from injuries hypermobility, overuse and whatnot, so it’s a double whammy. Particular accidents also play into factor, I broke my ankle (when on 1mg of adex/day prescribed to combat premature growth plate fusion when I was yougner), got screws in, ankle still gives me shit. A month or so ago I fell of my bike and fucked up my wrist… the wrist never healed. The second time I ever went skiing I went down a black diamond a few times (because it’s fun and I’m invincible dammit) and I fell the second time, wiped out real hard and fucked up my knee, that never really healed properly, from what I remember I also have a mild case of spondlyothesis. When I was like 13 I hurt my back doing deadlifts, that never healed, like pain in the ligaments of my spine, couldn’t ever get an accurate diagnosis for what it was, I get the feeling scar tissue probably built up or something. Let’s find more, I fucked up one of my shoulders bench pressing and the other one overhead pressing when I was 12-13, they never healed properly. Ultrasound found “significant structural abormalities” in one of the shoulders, probably related to a minor birth defect I have (one of my shoulders has like extra bone growth), I’ve built up enough muscle around it so it’s not noticeable, however the shape of my shoulders are a bit asymmetrical due to it. What else, when I was about 10-11 I was leg pressing about 120 kilograms and hurt my lower back, that did heal but it took a while. I only weighed about 35 kilos back then so it made sense as to why I got hurt haha, I had the best relative strength ever, it was crazy. This doesn’t count as a “muscular” injury but when I used to bench press frequently on a myriad of occasions I dropped the bar on my chest and had fairly major bruising, as I did and still do workout by myself (because I have no one else to do it with) therefore if I drop the bar or fall I’m fucked.

This is a very complicated, difficult decision to make though, I don’t get deca dick, as a matter of fact nandrolone made me feel… great. Problem is long term risks from long term nandrolone use seem… more likely to occur than to not occur

I do foam roll, stretch regularly and stuff.

Does EQ help with joint pain, I could shape shift into a horse, as I think that’s the horse drug for racing, counteracting catabolic states and such. EQ also poses a risk of cardiotoxicity, not as much as deca but probs more than test… but all AAS pose a risk of cardiotoxicity so… and EQ is potentially nephrotoxic, for high HCT or RBC I could just donate blood, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29148625

Either way if I can get around this without the use of additional drugs that’d be my best option. If I can’t fix this without intervention and EQ actually has a shot of helping I can always give it a shot (like cut my trt dose in half and the other half could be EQ) but I can’t see how EQ would help, it’d probably help my cardiovascular fitness, which is already pretty good. If it’s some BS about collagen symthesis (no offence to anyone who believes in this) then it depends on which type of collagen is synthesized, I have benign joint hypermobility syndrome (not EDS, thank god lol). I’d go into the different types of collagen but then this post would be absurdly long, and it’s already too long. And if something is cardiotoxic like nandrolone (I don’t know about EQ, it seems considerably/ much less dangerous), and it increases collagen synthesis, doesn’t that mean the process of cardiac fibrosis will be increased as cardiac myocyte death is replaced by scar tissue compromised of collagen therefore collagen deposition in the heart would be increased… And that’s not a good thing.


Yo @physiolojik do you have any tips on how to effective target the bicepz. I find they grow nicely however during workouts unless I do like, concentration cable curls I don’t feel the burn, I find it hard to get a good pump unless I directly train them on arm day, if I work my back before my biceps my forearms tend to fatigue while doing the bicep stuff. I’ve made serious progress over the past 8 weeks (I think, I’ll post pics when cycle is over, although I posted one yesterday of my bacne… Which isn’t a super appealing pic to look at and it isn’t flexed therefore it’s hard to judge progress by looking at it) I think I found a solution for it though, raw apple cider vinegar Yeet. When lizards like me get acne it’s a problem because we scratch our acne and it gets all irritated.

Secondly, at around what dose do I need to start seriously worrying about cardiac manifestations? I’ve gotten such good results off this dose it’d be hard for me to believe I’m not doing any serious harm. A doctor said to me today “are you aware of what AAS does to your heart” and this scared me a bit (one medical professional knows because I have a good relationship with that individual) and I was like “yea” and explained in detail the potential long term consequences I was looking at. Saying it out loud resparked a serious concern of mine, although if I did die sudden cardiac death would be my preferred way to go, because I wouldn’t know it happened lol


@physioLojik Any knowledge whether Fish oil will lower my e2 or increase liver function somehow?

Trying to recover from lowered e2 again, and need something for joint pain/inflammation. But I don’t want to dig myself any deeper.

I also read that I should possibly check my e1, as it is responsible for joint fluid retention. I couldn’t find anything confirming that really.


What about tumeric? I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that @physioLojik takes Biotest’s Flameout


I have taken it before, and it works amazing. Curcumin also increases liver clearance, and for me, lowers my e2 unfortunately.


I’ve got it!! MORE TESTOSTERONE!! woo hoo :joy:

Seriously though, I used to take a TON of fish oil. I dont know if it ever really did anything for me. It got to be a nuisance and not economically viable at the time. I’m taking ground flax seed for my Omega 3 and 9s with no negatives that I can tell. I just put it in my shake every day. Not sure if its related but my cholesterol went down on my last checkup after being on flaxseed for about 6 months.


I have been doing that also in an attempt to raise my e2! Not as fun as I would like though.


Supplements never caused me issues until I started on TRT.


Well, I’m sure @physioLojik will give you some insight when he gets a chance to log on.

Good luck


That was my answer to him, Increase the Test knowing more is going to convert to E2, giving you more wiggle room.


What’s going on Brother? Are you the opposite of the rest of us and have naturally low E2? Can you expand on what happened with trying to bump your Test?


Readers Digest: Starting TRT, I kept my e2 super low, for along time. Then I started getting horrible joint pain, and realized it was because I was keeping my e2 too low. So I stopped all e2 control…

Then I began to notice that supplements were also tanking my e2. Cucrumin, Carnitine, B6,b12, Creatine.

About 2 months ago, I started taking C4 preworkout. After about a month, I noticed some low e2 symptoms, but didn’t think anything of it. (Dry skin on knuckles, dry lips, low libido, low motivation, bad mood swings)

I kept taking it for another month before I realized what I was doing (for the hundredth time).

So now, im about 3 weeks post c4, 2 weeks post creatine, and im suffering from some pretty HORRIBLE joint pain in my hands (thumbs) and dry skin/lips, lack of libido, just off. not myself. Not feeling that alpha mindset. still able to get in the gym though

My normal procotol is 45 twice a week subQ for 90 total.

Last week I did 140 split over the week and just yesterday I injected 110 mgs because I felt like I was sliding backwards as far as e2 goes.


That is crazy! Must be extremely frustrating? Are self-treating or under a Dr’s care?

I know this is crazy and physio will probably cut my nuts off but…Dbol is a known E2 producer. Gave me pea sized gyno.


Its frustrating because I want to keep making gains. Starting January, I committed to lifting heavy and back into good shape. I reached my goal at 7 months, but I have so much more. Low e2 is definitely putting a hold on that. I am under a doctors care but for the most part I am on my own. I can get labs whenever I want though.

Its amazing what TRT can do though. I feel like I have an unlimited gas tank. I made amazing gains in just 7 months of being consistent and eating enough and lifting heavy.