T Nation

Ask Physiolojik Thread


#627

Hey @physioLojik hope all is well,

I’m new to the community so I apologize if I am doing this wrong. After 6 years of lifting natty and going from 145 pounds to 175 pounds I am now wanting to run my first cycle! I am going to be running Test Enanthate 250. I have a couple questions, would there be a big difference between 250mg and 500mg weekly. I have read support for both some saying if you’re shutting down system anyways might as well double the dosage to 500 and also support for only 1ml 250 for a first cycle. Secondly I have tamoxifen on hand but was originally going to run an AI, through reading however, I see tamoxifen will be fine if not better. When on cycle should you start tamoxifen dosage and how much should this dosage be per week/per day? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Tony


#628

Hey @physioLojik, how’s the baby? How’s the wife? Did everything go well?


#629

Even as someone who doesnt know much about cycling I dont think it is recommended to run 500mg per week on a first cycle. 200-300 mg is fine. In any case, you sound like you need to do a lot more research. Plus, every person responds differently to AAS and AIs.

Physiolojik doesnt appear to be a fan of AIs. Its not something you want to shoot first and ask questions later about.

I would get labs pre-cycle to establish a baseline for all important measures. You can order labs online in the US for relatively cheap. Later you can order labs during and post-cycle to see how you can alter your cycles in the future.

In any case, you dont want to crash your e2. Youre probably better off trying to run a cycle without an AI and, if your e2 goes beyond range and you experience symptoms, then take an AI.

To me there is a lot of trial and error running cycles. Because everyone responds differently there is no one-size-fits-all formula but it’s better to start on the low end and work your way up.

Everyone will give you a different opinion which is more or less valid. Some guys who have a lot of experience still won’t do 500mg of test per week or they won’t touch tren. Others will do both. Be safe. Be wise.


#630
  1. I got my baseline blood work done. It would be stupid to go into a first cycle without knowing your baseline.

  2. I have done exstensive research hence the getting so many different suggestions on what to do and not to do. With that said the research should never stop. Originally 250 was what I was set on running. Seeing as this is considered just a high TRT dosage I saw 500 as fit. I am now set on 400 at .8ml of test e 250 twice a week.

  3. As far as serms vs ai my conclusion is it will only being fine tuned for the individual through trial and than bloodwork will be the real deal breaker. For myself I will avoid an AI but have it on hand if needed. Will use tamoxifen to start and get bloodwork done. I still have a question regarding these. If estrogen levels on tamoxifen are too high but no sides are really felt what would be the benefit to running an ai instead. Obviously to get estrogen levels within the sweet spot range, but if on tamoxifen the estrogen can’t bind and is just floating in your body what is the negative seeing as it helps muscle growth?


#631

Let me also add yes I understand tamoxifen is selective in where it chooses to let estrogen bind and not bind. But like I said if e2 is high yet no sides are felt why control the e2 to lower it with an AI. As in typing I realize this is all what if and hypothetical but it’s a piece of mind to know “in case” for us first timers haha.


#632

As promised earlier, I’ll add in my experience, which goes against the general principle here. Of course, this is just my single case, which is far from the depth some people have in this topic, so I’ll not jump at conclusions, just share what I experienced.
So, in line with what I read here, I did not jump on heavy AI use when I started my first blast of 400 mg T/week. I still took just a bit of Adex, as from my earlier TRT experience I knew I’m not the least aromatizer guy in the world.
Then I had symptoms which were almost inconclusive to whether my E2 was high or low. When my nipples became tender right before my lab was due, I guessed it’d be high, but as my issues were much more mental and cognitive (fatigue, brain fog, low mood, etc.) than breast related (no swelling AT ALL, no lumps, nothing, just some itch and mild tenderness) I was really surprised to find out my E2 was at 80 pg/ml.
So this relates back to sg I raised here a while ago. What’s the point of fighting E2 with a SERM and not an AI when the SERM does NOT help with the symptoms that come earlier than the ones the SERM helps. That is, SERMs don’t seem to help with E2 messing with my brain, water retention, etc. They do one thing, block E2 from breast tissue receptors. Now if at 80 my breasts were almost fully intact, but the mental symptoms were absolutely prevalent (and were amazingly relieved once I upped my AI), I wonder how Tamoxifen could’ve helped me at all had I been using that.
I hope my dilemma makes sense.


#633

hello i suffer from finasteride induced sexual dysfunction
i have a lot of symptoms of low T but my bloodwork is fine
-no errections
-weak urine stream
-reduced ejaculation
-no libido
-fatique

it has been said that the propercia dick=deca dick and i know that u suggest trt+low dose hydrocortisone for deca dick for recovery
what would u suggest for me,im 21 yrs old and my life is ruined if dont find relief of this
tnx for ur time this means very much to me! :))

these are my labs
TSH 2.83 (0.27-4.20)
fT4 15.10(10.30-24.45)
FSH 7.02(1.6-12)
LH 4.34(0.8-6.0)
Estradiol 42.37(7-45)
Prolactin 11.76(2.7-16.9)
Testosterone 16.14(5.2-22.9)
SHBG 51.6(15-120)

@physioLojik

regards


#634

I’m assuming this is nmol, does it really say 120nmol is normal? Holy potatoes, my ref range for shbg is like 15-55.

This is also one of the lowest ref ranges I’ve ever seen. My bloods put me at 27nmol at my NADIR (well now probs about 30nmol at nadir)… That’s probably why I’m feeling so fantastic all the time #teeteringonsupraphysiologicdosesallthetimeyeet

-reduced ejaculation

  • no erections

What’s you’re DHT at, these sound like low DHT (DHT stimulates growth of prostate and seminal vesicles, both important for synthesis of seminal fluid), not saying low T isn’t the culprit at all (free T could be low), need another blood test with free T (T is bound to SHBG + Albumin, however SHBG fluctuates a ton…), Finasteride blocks the conversion of T→DHT via blocking effect of 5 a reductase enzyme, howevs blocking the effects of 5a reductase also blocks the conversion of Progesterone to dihydrotestosterone and cortisone to dihydrodeoxycortisone (aren’t hormones fascinating). The following 5ar reduced metabolites of each hormone impact the effect of GABA on GABA receptors and thus mood may be shitty and libido/ erectile function will turn to poofies as the brain is the largest sex organ, hard to fuck when you’re super depressed haha.

Anyhow free T + DHT, total T isn’t terrible (but certainly isn’t great, esp for someone with symptoms), Free T may be low, as may DHT.

I’m not sure why you’d want to use hydrocortisone unless you had low cortisone (deca at high doses… as well as most AAS crushes cortisone) thus if one had super low cortisone hydrocortisone could be used), however blocking 5 a reductase would probably increase cortisone (and decrease dihydrodeoxycortisone)… Propecia dick and deca dick are different tho, deca dick = crushed serotonin, dopamine, GABA receptor dysfunction and potentially hypogonadism, Propecia dick is decreased neurosteroids synthesis, GABA receptor dysfunction, low DHT or low T… Wait… They’re actually pretty similar lol.

Anyhow I’d get those bloods, also if cortisol is low one can always try eat a ton of liquorice or take liquorice root (Glycyrrhizic acid prevents conversion of cortisol to cortisone via inhibition of 11 b hudroxysteroid dehydrogenase) yeet great for the ol adrenal fatigue but not so great if one has hyperactive adrenals. Corticosteroids (in my opinion) are pretty nasty drugs, I’d avoid them at all costs. I mean low dose hydrocortisone isn’t the end of the world but I’d rather stay off em completely ya know

Anyhow I’m not physiolojik however I hope this helps (physiolojik just had a child and thus may be (appropriately) absent for a while.


#635

tnx for the reply first
im saying that they are similar cause some guys of propercia forums recovered with a protocol of
test enanthate 100mg per week + nature tiroid + very low dose hydrocortisone
the recovery physiolojik suggests for deca dick is trt + hydrocortisone which is the same as recovery on propercia forums with - nature tyroid
there have been discussion also that deca dick=propercia dick via this mechanism:

"t’s called “Deca Dick”. Deca gets broken down to NOR-DHT by 5AR, which is a practically inactive androgen, and displaces T>DHT conversion. From the perspective of the Androgen Receptor, this is similar to taking a 5ARI such as fin. No wonder guys get the same sides.

Now let’s think for a minute what Deca does: 5AR will break it down into a practically inactive androgen called NOR-DHT. This is basically equivalent to combining TRT with a 5ARI of your choice, say finasteride. Now does that sound like a good idea? Considering the fact that Deca is known to cause PERMANENT erectile dysfunction (Deca Dick), I wouldn’t touch the stuff with a 20 ft. pole if I were you."

im in a Balkan country so the referance range is different yes but testosterone is at middle
5.2+22.9 in half is 16.5 so my test isnt good for 21 at middle

i asked for free T but they couldnt provide at the lab
take a look at the links i copied and tell me what u think regarding deca dick/finasteride dick

regards


#636

Permeant? I’m not sure about that, I mean anything a possible but if the hypogonadism can be corrected post deca, the neuro sides of deca is what most likely causes the brunt of deca dick, t to DHT shouldn’t be affected or displaced from nand usage so long as exogenous test is being used. The amount of nandrolone needed to saturate every single androgen receptor would be absurd, thus with nandrolone + T DHT would still be there I’m adequate amounts. To add to that, dihydronandrolone, although less androgenic than nand of DHT itself STILL posesses affinity for the androgen receptor, it isn’t inactive.

I didn’t get any links (you told me to look at some links), the way anabolic steroids affect individuals will differ between everyone, personally, I’ve used nandrolone (albeit briefly at low doses) and never had any issues from it.


#637

i meant the sentences in quotes " "


#638

I’ve read on other places taking a DHT like proviron during cycle helps, in fact on a few steroid sites it’s the gold standard when using deca. 25mg morning and night so 50mg per day. Some say keeping T higher in cycle helps and using caber if prolactin is getting out of control. I hate deca, it shuts shit down hard. I have a cycle of NPP sitting here with the proviron, but still hesitant to start it, just in case.


#639

You try a cycle of 100-200mg test and run the proviron, also pray lol some people I’ve read are still messed up years later


#640

where are you from?
Im from balkans, also.

Symptoms include, ed, no libido, no morning, spontateneous erections, genital numbness, no body odor, no sweat from/armpit /genitals, low semen volume and force, no feeling in orgasm.
T is normal at 650 (250-950)
DHT is low at 220 (300-850)
DHEA-S slightly elevated.

WTF WOULD CAUSE THIS SHIT, im only 24


#641

do you have this from propercia or?


#642

No…

I went on crash diet in summer of 2016. Only vegetables I was eating. 1400 calories plus I was burning a lot on gyms treadmill. I lost 17kg in a little over a month. Kept the diet and training for december 2016 when I noticed libido was shot and low semen volume , no morning wood. Started eating more eventually noticed my genitals are completely numb like rubber. Stuck like this for 2.5+ years now…


#643

mb u should try this or wait till i try it
the protocol consists of:
100mg test enanthate per week
20-30mg hydrocortisone pill divided 4 times per day(10+10+5+5)
and mb u can include thyroid,nature tiroid etc very low dose

this protocol for 6-9 months,than PCT for 40 days

thats my advice and the thing im going to try after i have the resources rdy


#644

but im natural , i never took steroids, trt, etc… I never want to take it.
I dont undertstand what would cause this?


#645

@joeviv10 do you suffer from any psychological issues? Do you have tremors? The issue you are having is likely not hormonal but induced by insufficient dopamine. Do you use stimulants? What’s your sleep like?


#646

Hello all! We welcomed a baby boy - 9 pounds 2 oz! Beast of a kiddo haha. Thank you
Guys for all your well wishes!