In case anyone is interested I just spent six weeks in hospital: compound fracture of the right tibia and fibula, tibia nail from the patela to the ankle, shattered ankle, matatarsals and cuneiform all in the right foot and intermediate cuneiform in my left foot. What has this to do with Judaism? I read the OT twice in bed. Only skipped over the genealogies and descriptions of the measurements of the temple. Favourite book by far? Ecclesiates. Life is meaningless; a chasing of the wind. I never expected to find such profound insight in the bible.
A question for Moshe: As you know two of Abraham’s sons were Isaac and Ishmael. Are the Ishmaelites Jewish? If not, why not?
Another question: Are the descendants of the lost tribes who never returned from the Babylonian/Persian-Mede exile and lost their religion ‘forever cut off from their people?’
Thanks and I apologise for my pride and boasting.
I think I know the answer -ishmael’s descendants are not Jews -his brother Isaac founded the community. Ishmael’s descendents were cursed- your hand will be drawn against everyone and everyone’s hand will be drawn against you!
I think I know the answer -ishmael’s descendants are not Jews -his brother Isaac founded the community. Ishmael’s descendents were cursed- your hand will be drawn against everyone and everyone’s hand will be drawn against you!
Jewbacca seems to be MIA lately, but this is an interesting article.
Israel’s Ultraorthodox Stage Massive Protest Against Draft
JERUSALEM?Hundreds of thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jews shut down much of this city on Sunday in a massive demonstration against drafting them into the military.
A sea of men in black suits and hats extended as far as the eye could see in a scene on Sunday that was part rally, part religious ceremony, with demonstrators cradling holy books and uttering prayers. Rabbis urged participants to resist the draft legislation, but the crowd remained mostly peaceful.
Israel’s government has proposed legislation that would end more than six decades of exempting ultra-Orthodox Jews from compulsory military service in Israel. It is part of a wider scheme to reduce subsidies and other perks for the ultra-Orthodox.
There have been a series of protests against the draft. But this demonstration was one of the largest to hit Jerusalem recently, closing the entrance to the city and many roads.
Protesters complained that the legislation was an affront to their traditional way of life.
“The law shows no respect for those studying the Torah,” said a 25-year-old student in a Jewish seminary who recently immigrated from Toronto. He said that just as many countries offer deferrals for college students, religious study should be protected as well.
The ultra-Orthodox make up around 8% of Israel’s population of 8 million and are one of the country’s fastest-growing groups.
The exemption dates back to the times of Israel’s founder David Ben-Gurion, who made the deal in return for political support from rabbis. But today, many ultra-Orthodox men remain in religious studies most of their lives. Many secular Israelis argue the special treatment has become unfair.
“The original idea was that an elite group of Torah students would get the exemption-now that has expanded to nearly everyone,” says Gadi Wolfsfeld, a political scientist at Interdisciplinary Center Herzliya, an Israeli college.
The current government?the first in years that doesn’t include ultra-Orthodox parties in its coalition?argues that bringing the group into the military is a first step to integrating them more deeply into the fabric of Israeli society.
Many ultra-Orthodox men do not work and many families receive subsidies calculated on the basis of the number of children in a household. As the ultra-Orthodox population expands rapidly, the situation has left both politicians and economists concerned.
The bill recently passed its legislative committee and is working its way through the parliament.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Ecclesiates. Life is meaningless; a chasing of the wind. I never expected to find such profound insight in the bible.[/quote]
Glad to hear you’re out.
Ecclesiastes is among my favorite pieces of literature. Ever. More wisdom there than in most thousand-page tomes.
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Ecclesiates. Life is meaningless; a chasing of the wind. I never expected to find such profound insight in the bible.[/quote]
Glad to hear you’re out.
Ecclesiastes is among my favorite pieces of literature. Ever. More wisdom there than in most thousand-page tomes.[/quote]
Good things happen to good people. Yeah right! We can never comprehend the machinations of the world the Lord set in motion and it is futile to try.
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
“The law shows no respect for those studying the Torah,” said a 25-year-old student in a Jewish seminary who recently immigrated from Toronto. He said that just as many countries offer deferrals for college students, religious study should be protected as well.
[/quote]
The ‘law’ or more correctly the teaching of Moses(Moshe our teacher) who was imparted the written and oral torah on Sinai over 40 days is a lifelong study and my understanding is that until the Messiah(a descendant of David) returns and establishes a monarchy the promise of Canaan and the covenant of Canaan and promise of Israel will not be fulfilled. Please correct this humble student if I am wrong. Is this Messianic Judaism or what all orthodox believe?
‘I also established my covenant with them to give them the land of Canaan, where they resided as foreigners.’ Exodus 6:4
You mean mixing with Jews who regard their history and the written and oral law as ancient fairy tales worthy of contempt?
Oh that’s rich! Unlike the Gazans who live off UN handouts and use them to make lethal weapons in their genocidal campaign?
Well the Gazans have the highest birthrate on earth only we’re paying for it. The Lord said be fruitful and multiply. He promised the Israelites would be like the sands of the sea.
Moshe our teacher? Another question(this thread was your idea remember$
). Are Tzotzil worn all the time with regular clothes or only with prayer shawls?
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
The observance of so many laws effecting food and would make socializing with people outside your faith difficult, or at least awkward. If you lived on my street, how would you handle social invitations? [/quote]
Yes, it can make things awkward. The difficulty is part of the G-d’s plan (if I may be so bold to speak for Him) is to make us a “people apart” and preserve us as a separate nation.
[quote]
You mentioned that you had never been to church services. Is that because your social circles are strictly within your own faith? For example, we are not Catholic, but we’ve attended baptism services for friend’s children. If a Christian co-worker dies, would you attend his funeral? Go to his wedding in a church? [/quote]
It is because it is forbidden for a Jewish person to participate in (what a Jew believes to be) a false religion.
Married women. Hair is a very sensual part of the body and saved for the husband, at least symbolically. Similarly, I don’t touch a woman (or try not to) that is not in my family because the touch of a woman is very powerful. It makes the touch of Mrs. Jewbacca very, very special, and is a promise I made to her.
[quote]
If your wife wanted to run a marathon, or take a ballet class, would that be acceptable? If so, what would she wear? Can she wear a bathing suit a the beach? [/quote]
Well, she does Crossfit. Wears yoga pants with a little skort thing.
[quote]
If I went to religious services with your family, would I hear women speak? Pray? [/quote]
Sometimes. Depends on the shul. A woman cannot be a Rabbi, but can do most everything else. Many things only a woman can do. For example, she leads family prayers, in the home, where she is the boss of most things spiritual.
Men and women generally sit apart from one another, so you can focus on what is going on, instead of checking out the hot chicks.
[quote]
I have read that Orthodox families tend to have more children. Is that just a reflection of your values, or is birth control or spacing one’s children discouraged or prohibited? [/quote]
We take the mitzvah to “go forth and populate the world” seriously. Birth control is fine, if part of logical family planning. Abortion is not fine, except to save the life of the woman (where it is required).
[quote]
Our high school aged children attend religious classes every morning from 6-7 am, before school. They also attend church for 3 hours on Sunday. What is religious instruction like for your kids? Does it differ for men and women? [/quote]
About the same. I’ve only had daughters, so my experience is limited to girls. But I went to a male-only religious school prior to the IDF (where I went crazy and slept with various Lebanese, Turkish, and American women).
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
A question for Moshe: As you know two of Abraham’s sons were Isaac and Ishmael. Are the Ishmaelites Jewish? If not, why not?
[/quote]
They are arabs. They might convert to Judaism, like anyone else.
Most just got mixed in to the Jewish people and their tribal identity is not known. But there are lots and lots of Jewish people who do not know they are Jewish, especially in areas where the Roman Catholics forced conversions, like Italy (where, at one time 1/4 of the Roman citizens were Jewish).
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
About clothing, I did look back and see the picture you put up of Ivanka Trump. NOT what I expected. There are some Orthodox clothing bloggers who are just beautiful, and very stylish. http://www.alamodesty.com/ and http://www.pinterest.com/sharonlangert/modest-fashion/ I was picturing frumpy pictures of grandmotherly types that we’ve all seen on TV. [/quote]
Yeah, Ivanka made my “hot Jewish girls” list of yore.
Anyway, what you are talking about is “frum” – the Hebrew/Yiddish from which people got the word “frumpy.”
Mrs. Jewbacca and Ivanka are not frum. Both are from the school of thought that observance of mitzvahs should be done in the most beautiful way possible (which is why a Shul is often very pretty, for example).
She is, however, observant, so she dresses with style, and in compliance with the rules, but not like a pilgrim.
The hatred/shame of the body is a Greek and Calvanistic idea, as well as muslim. It’s not part of Judaism, but has bled into Judaism, especially from Mizrahim (Jews who were in arab countries) or in parts of Europe (where being a hot Jewish girl meant you were going to be raped by the local magistrate).
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Many ultra-Orthodox men do not work and many families receive subsidies calculated on the basis of the number of children in a household. As the ultra-Orthodox population expands rapidly, the situation has left both politicians and economists concerned.[/quote]
I call them “freeloaders.” Israel has them like anyone else.
Long story, involving a highly-fractionated Parlimentary government and the formation of Israel as a modern nation-state.
You have to take anything Haaretz says with a grain of salt. It is very secular, and very anti-religious. So they hold up the wackos as representatives of the entirety of observant Jews.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
They are arabs. They might convert to Judaism, like anyone else.
[/quote]
Yeah that’s what I thought. I know Muslims believe it too and it’s in the Koran. I had quite a long conversation with a Kurdish guy recently and was surprised how much he knew about the bible - presumably he learned it from the Koran.
I have made a friend of a Hasidic, and he was telling me about Purim and money given to others in the Hasidic community (he told me about it around Purim this year). My question is, how do you go about this? He did not explain it clearly to me, enough to know what Purim is in modern days (I understand it generally with Esther and the Persian King). And, why the windfall of money to anyone that asks for money? And, if you precipitate how much money do you give in charity?
Also, how much are you required to give to charity, and how much is too much?
And, where do you give charity to? Hasidic organizations or random things?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I have made a friend of a Hasidic, and he was telling me about Purim and money given to others in the Hasidic community (he told me about it around Purim this year). My question is, how do you go about this? He did not explain it clearly to me, enough to know what Purim is in modern days (I understand it generally with Esther and the Persian King). And, why the windfall of money to anyone that asks for money? And, if you precipitate how much money do you give in charity?
Also, how much are you required to give to charity, and how much is too much?
And, where do you give charity to? Hasidic organizations or random things? [/quote]
OK. I will take a swing at that pitch.
But there was something lost in your conversation with the Hasid, or he was being purposefully obtuse, focusing on money as the medium.
FIrst, Maimonides’ hierarchy of charity (tzedakah):
- Giving an interest-free loan to a person in need; forming a partnership with a person in need; giving a grant to a person in need; finding a job for a person in need; so long as that loan, grant, partnership, or job results in the person no longer living by relying upon others.
- Giving tzedakah anonymously to an unknown recipient via a person (or public fund) which is trustworthy, wise, and can perform acts of tzedakah with your money in a most impeccable fashion.
- Giving tzedakah anonymously to a known recipient.
- Giving tzedakah publicly to an unknown recipient.
- Giving tzedakah before being asked.
- Giving adequately after being asked.
- Giving willingly, but inadequately.
- Giving “in sadness” (giving out of pity): It is thought that Maimonides was referring to giving because of the sad feelings one might have in seeing people in need (as opposed to giving because it is a religious obligation). Other translations say “Giving unwillingly.”
Number 2-5 are exercised during Purim
Next: Purim is celebrated …
"Based on the conclusions of the Scroll of Esther (Esther 9:22): “[…] that they should make them days of feasting and gladness, and of sending portions one to another, and gifts to the poor” Purim is therefore celebrated among Jews by:
- Exchanging reciprocal gifts of food and drink known as mishloach manot.
- Donating charity to the poor known as mattanot la-evyonim.
- Eating a celebratory meal known as a se’udat Purim.
- Public recitation (“reading of the megillah”) of the Scroll of Esther, known as kriat ha-megillah, usually in synagogue.
5, Reciting additions, known as Al HaNissim, to the daily prayers and the grace after meals. - Other customs include drinking wine or any alcoholic beverage, wearing of masks and costumes, and public celebration."
Note the first two practices, regarding giving and charity.
Mishloach manot (shlach manos) can be rather elaborate, involving all variations of giving, usually of food, but of money if the food is inconvenient or the distance to the recipient is great.
What follows is a highly abbreviated version of rules regarding the giving of meshloach manor:
- Mishloach manot must be sent and delivered during the daylight hours of Purim.
- According to most opinions, the sender and recipient should be observing the same day of Purim.
- According to some Orthodox advisors, men should only send mishloach manot to male friends, and females to female friends, for reasons of modesty. A family may send to a man or a woman, and a man or a woman may send to a family. In the same vein, a family may send mishloach manot to another family. Children over the age of six or seven are also encouraged to send mishloach manot to their friends as training for the performance of a mitzvah.
- Mishloach manot are not sent to a mourner. The mourner himself is obligated to send mishloach manot, but the package should not be too elaborate. According to some opinions, a mourner should send to only one person.
- Mishloach manot can be delivered personally, but it is customary to deliver the food packages via a third party. Children are often involved in this mitzvah as the go-betweens between the giving parties, and are rewarded with sweets and treats for their efforts.
- One is not obligated to send mishloach manot as a reciprocal gesture to the sender.
While the halacha only calls for the giving of two food gifts to one friend, a person who gives mishloach manot to more than one person is called praiseworthy. However, it is better to give more charity on Purim day than to spend more money on elaborate mishloach manot.
(as usual, local customs may prevail)
It is an exercise–for both children and adults–to learn and enjoy all the varieties of giving, and charity without pity.
[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
OK. I will take a swing at that pitch.
But there was something lost in your conversation with the Hasid, or he was being purposefully obtuse, focusing on money as the medium.
[/quote]
Probably, he was just explaining why he needed so much money that day (I caught a glimpse of two stacks of money in his bag and asked).
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I have made a friend of a Hasidic, and he was telling me about Purim and money given to others in the Hasidic community (he told me about it around Purim this year). My question is, how do you go about this? He did not explain it clearly to me, enough to know what Purim is in modern days (I understand it generally with Esther and the Persian King). And, why the windfall of money to anyone that asks for money? And, if you precipitate how much money do you give in charity?
Also, how much are you required to give to charity, and how much is too much?
And, where do you give charity to? Hasidic organizations or random things? [/quote]
Lots of related and unrelated concepts mixed here.
Starting with the basics:
Purim is a festival to celebrate the defeat of Haman an evil advisor to the King of Persia (I always think of Jafar from Aladdin, but then I have many daughters and watched too many Disney movies) who wanted to kill all the Jews. Due to Ester, Mordecai, and not-so-subtle hand of G-d, things work out very well for my Tribe and Haman dies.
The customs of Purim are many: read the book of Ester and eat, drink, and be merry. I have been told St. Patrick’s day was derived from Purim, if that helps put it into perspective.
The Book of Esther prescribes “the sending of portions one man to another, and gifts to the poor” (Esther 9:22).
Each adult must give two different foods to one person, and two charitable donations to two poor people.
To fulfill the mitzvah of giving charity to two poor people, one can give either food or money equivalent to the amount of food that is eaten at a regular meal (say $1000, although I usually up it because I can).
No distinction is made among Jewish and non-Jewish poor; anyone who is willing to accept charity is a candidate.
Typically a shul will organize and work a soup kitchen or the like that day (or around that day) as time permits.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Lots of related and unrelated concepts mixed here.
Starting with the basics:
Purim is a festival to celebrate the defeat of Haman an evil advisor to the King of Persia (I always think of Jafar from Aladdin, but then I have many daughters and watched too many Disney movies) who wanted to kill all the Jews. Due to Ester, Mordecai, and not-so-subtle hand of G-d, things work out very well for my Tribe and Haman dies.
The customs of Purim are many: read the book of Ester and eat, drink, and be merry. I have been told St. Patrick’s day was derived from Purim, if that helps put it into perspective.
The Book of Esther prescribes “the sending of portions one man to another, and gifts to the poor” (Esther 9:22).
Each adult must give two different foods to one person, and two charitable donations to two poor people.
To fulfill the mitzvah of giving charity to two poor people, one can give either food or money equivalent to the amount of food that is eaten at a regular meal (say $1000, although I usually up it because I can).
No distinction is made among Jewish and non-Jewish poor; anyone who is willing to accept charity is a candidate.
Typically a shul will organize and work a soup kitchen or the like that day (or around that day) as time permits.[/quote]
Thank you for the answers, what about these questions, just in general?
Also, how much are you required to give to charity (percentage wise), and how much is too much?
And, where do you give charity to? Hasidic organizations or random things?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Also, how much are you required to give to charity (percentage wise), and how much is too much?[/quote]
There are many specifics in this regard, especially if one lives in Israel, where the obligations to give charity are greater, and similarly, once the Temple is restored there are additional obligations.
But, in general, and outside Israel: Ten percent of a person’s income must be given to charitable causes. his ten percent is calculated after deducting business expenses and income tax from the total income. Household expenses, sales tax and property tax cannot be deducted.
If you can afford it, you can give away up to 20%.
[quote]
And, where do you give charity to? Hasidic organizations or random things? [/quote]
There are no specific rules in this regard, other than to give wisely.
I come in at around 11-18% of income. I’d do more, but I pay almost 50% or so to taxes already, the bulk of which is allegedly given to people in need by our government masters, so I get a little pissed off.
Of what I give, I typically do about half to Jewish causes and half to whatever local community I am living in. On Jewish causes, I break it down half to my shul and half to Jewish-specific organizations.
The 25/25/50 rule of thumb is probably pretty common.
You pay dues to a shul, so they tend to have a reasonable operating budget.