Article: Equal Marriage=Less Sex

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
22

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Sorry to hear that man.

Many of the girls/women that have been in my life have had at least some tendency to do what you described (about work and stress).

If it affects your desire to have sex with her, the consensus piece of advice–not that you asked–would probably be to talk about it with her. Not sure if that’s been tried.
[/quote]

Most certainly. In fact, I’m a HUGE proponent of communication. Apparently, everyone talks to her about her stress which in turns, stresses her out.

I’m not even sure why I wrote that on here. I guess it’s been on my mind a lot and that article kind of hit home. In addition, I seem to be surrounded by intelligent peepz with more life experience than me.

23

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
And not going to lie, the other restaurants are looking mighty fine lately…
[/quote]

I’m not trying to be Dr Phil here but:

Look, everybody poops. It isn’t a massive revelation, but if you really think about it, it is.

My wife, once, dropped the nastiest shit ever right before I had to get in the shower. It was gross, lol. So, so gross. Not 5 mins after my shower, she was in the bedroom nd I was trying to get an afternoon quicky.

She looked at me and was like “after all the complaining you did on how bad your shower was, you actually find me attractive right now?”

It dawned on me. Men can typically compartmentalize that stuff, and or rationalize the stuff we don’t like about a person, and focus on the stuff that makes us want them.

So with that said, I recommend you work on this issue with your chick, and do it sooner rather than later. But you need to know for yourself, what YOU want, before you even bring it up with her. Because if you are sort of lost on the subject, you’ll both end up full of resentment and with dry dick in a couple years

24

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Sorry to hear that man.

Many of the girls/women that have been in my life have had at least some tendency to do what you described (about work and stress).

If it affects your desire to have sex with her, the consensus piece of advice–not that you asked–would probably be to talk about it with her. Not sure if that’s been tried.
[/quote]

Most certainly. In fact, I’m a HUGE proponent of communication. Apparently, everyone talks to her about her stress which in turns, stresses her out.

I’m not even sure why I wrote that on here. I guess it’s been on my mind a lot and that article kind of hit home. In addition, I seem to be surrounded by intelligent peepz with more life experience than me.
[/quote]

How old is she if you don’t mind asking?

26

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Sorry to hear that man.

Many of the girls/women that have been in my life have had at least some tendency to do what you described (about work and stress).

If it affects your desire to have sex with her, the consensus piece of advice–not that you asked–would probably be to talk about it with her. Not sure if that’s been tried.
[/quote]

Most certainly. In fact, I’m a HUGE proponent of communication. Apparently, everyone talks to her about her stress which in turns, stresses her out.

I’m not even sure why I wrote that on here. I guess it’s been on my mind a lot and that article kind of hit home. In addition, I seem to be surrounded by intelligent peepz with more life experience than me.
[/quote]

How old is she if you don’t mind asking?[/quote]

Just turned 28 and was recently promoted to Manager at her Regional Accounting firm. Pretty young for that I know.

I’ve noticed the stress thing has been an issue for her for a while and I do what I can do alleviate it, but it doesn’t seem to matter. I’ve discussed it with her, but I haven’t seen any action on her part to fix it.

Her idea of fixing it is not sharing with me…BUT I’m a very astute observer. I can tell when something is up or not right, even over a phone call. It’s a blessing and a curse…

27

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

A lot of truth her. Relationships are work.

[/quote]

Of course they are but the truth of the matter is it takes more than work. It takes some sizzle.

Now you may respond that it takes work to make it sizzle. OK, that’s a different kind of work in a sense. It’s not just verbal communication (BlueCollar comment above) and it’s not just trying REALLY hard to work things out. It’s understanding and playing on the sexual dynamic that has been in place since time immemorial.
[/quote]

Absolutely!

28

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

I don’t think many people want to be good at monogamy because it’s too hard. Sorta like training. [/quote]

Yeah, and it changes.

The person next to you changes and grows, you change and grow. Physically, yes it is the same vagina, so if that is a problem marriage isn’t for you, but the actual person and soul attached to is changing everyday.

That is a lot of the hard part about it. Been with my wife for 10 years+ married for just over 6. Things are better now than they were in year one, because we’ve grow together.

One thing I will say for sure is kids will do one of two things to your relationship:

  1. Bring you together as a couple who is their for your kids, or
  2. Bring you together for the kids, as a couple.

Hope for number one, because as they get older and the two parents aren’t needed as much, you suddenly realize you were just going through the motions, and doing it for the kids. It is one of the hardest parts of having small kids, but you have to, without question, remember that you two are a couple first, and they are your children, not the other way around.

(Speaking in proverbial you here.)
[/quote]

You are wise beyond your years, Beans.[/quote]

Thanks.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

“It’s the first time in history we are trying this experiment of a sexuality that?s rooted in equality and that lasts for decades,’ Esther Perel said. 'It’s a tall order for one person to be your partner in Management Inc., your best friend and passionate lover. There’s a certain part of you that with this partner will not be fulfilled. You deal with that loss. It?s a paradox to be lived with, not solved.” I’m not so sure about that. “Living with a paradox” and not solving it sounds like a life full of boredom. So learn to live with boredom is her answer? Maybe. Maybe not.[/quote]

Yeah, this part from her sounds like horseshit for me.

No one is perfect, that is for sure, and no one is going to make the perfect partner, but that is what actually makes it worth it, lol.

It is sort of like this in my mind:

Take buttsex. As long as I can lick it, touch it and look at it, I’m fine with anal play. I don’t need anything going in there to be turned on. In fantasy world, of course you need something going in there… You know what I mean.

I find it hot in pretend, but not hot in real life. (I mean I would do it if she asked, but I’m not asking for it.) So there will always be that mystery, that taboo, that unexplored space with her and that is great.

Works the same way personality wise, and “fixing the paradox”. You keep working on making sure things are good, and always remember there is a mysterious part out there waiting for you to find it, that might be the holy grail, and you’ll always be interested in moving forward…

IDK, maybe I’m weird.

29

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

Just turned 28 and was recently promoted to Manager at her Regional Accounting firm. [/quote]

lol, yeah…

That whole preverbal “biological clock” thing isn’t fake man. It is 100% real, and I would imagine your irritation to her stress reaction is, at least, in part ot a biological response of “if you can’t handle this, how are you going to be able to handle offspring.”

I’ve only been around a couple women that were truly okay with not having kids. It is in our nature, so someone is “odd” when they don’t want one, regret not having one.

Assuming she doesn’t have a chemical imbalance, it seems like she lacks stability and down time. Happens to achievers.

31

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

Just turned 28 and was recently promoted to Manager at her Regional Accounting firm. [/quote]

That whole preverbal “biological clock” thing isn’t fake man. It is 100% real, and I would imagine your irritation to her stress reaction is, at least, in part ot a biological response of “if you can’t handle this, how are you going to be able to handle offspring.”
[/quote]

Certainly wise beyond your years. That exact thought has crossed my mind multiple times.

32

[quote]pushharder wrote:
When a man or woman looks at their spouse primarily as a “buddy,” or domestic work partner (peer marriage) the sexual dynamic is bound to lose its cohesiveness, its power.
[/quote]

Well, my fiance is my best friend right now, but she is certainly not my “buddy.” We spend lots of time apart with our other friends. We both see a lot of value in that.

We are partners in the sense of we are working towards common goals. Financial security/stability, future family, happiness for our current families, communities, etc.

When she gets home tonight we are going to hug and I will kiss her and tell her I missed her. I’ll probably grab her tight ass when I do it. And she loves my ass so she may do it back.

As long as I want to grab onto that thing and she wants to grab onto mine I bet we will be ok.

I will be honest I’ve never been in a relationship this long with this type of sex though. I can honestly say we haven’t slowed down one bit in how much we want each other yet…even with this being our first year of living in sin (living together pre-marriage!).

Anyone who looked at their partner as a buddy or peer would have issues. You gotta have physical attraction and you gotta have sex going for you. If you don’t you turn into friends. Maybe friends that help each other with the laundry, but just friends.

At least that’s how I see it.

33

Keep it coming beans (seriously) great stuff. I’m getting married in June, but we have been together for 4 years. We had a long engagement because of family stuff! It’s actually been great though, we’ve lived together for a year and we definitely feel pretty married in a sense now.

Crazy how much our relationship changed when she moved in. I had a lot of growing up to do. We are in a really good spot here though now.

I definitely think people should live together before marriage if possible, I know some religions frown upon it but damn is it nice having some of those initial problems out of the way.

34

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

Just turned 28 and was recently promoted to Manager at her Regional Accounting firm. [/quote]

lol, yeah…

That whole preverbal “biological clock” thing isn’t fake man. It is 100% real, and I would imagine your irritation to her stress reaction is, at least, in part ot a biological response of “if you can’t handle this, how are you going to be able to handle offspring.”

I’ve only been around a couple women that were truly okay with not having kids. It is in our nature, so someone is “odd” when they don’t want one, regret not having one.

Assuming she doesn’t have a chemical imbalance, it seems like she lacks stability and down time. Happens to achievers. [/quote]

Wait, I thought we could have it all.

You guys are really bringing me down. :slight_smile:

Who ever told you that you can both have really demanding stressful work, and there would be no downside. Some of us handle stress better than others. I’m not so great at it.

My experience -

The years when I was working full-time at a fairly stressful job, commuting an hour each way in stop and go traffic, meeting with irate parents and their lawyers in hearings and mediation proceedings, up to my eyeballs in bureaucratic paperwork. Not our best years in the bedroom.

It did help us avoid debt while my husband was launching his career, and helped us save for a home. BUT I was exhausted. I was out of shape. Walking a mile had me out of breath. I rarely get headaches, but I would come home with a tension headache nearly everyday, and was miserable with chronic sinus infections. I think I was running on cortisol. All my health issues vanished when I stepped away from that to stay home with our first baby, and began working at a less stressful job a couple of days a week. At least for us, there were tradeoffs. I know some people handle it better. And the first couple of years with kids can be stressful and sleep deprived as well.

And about biology, I’m lucky I didn’t ruin my marriage in those years. I’m one of those women who is REALLY effected by the pill. Unfortunately, neither of us realized that until after I went off of them. I feel some regret now that we wasted what should have been some of our best years as a couple, when we were so young. It’s hard to parse it out in terms of cause and effect. I was younger, doing a poor job of coping with stress, out of shape, and on the pill. None of that was helpful.

35

Stress effects people whether they realize it or not to varying degrees. At times during football season I might not want sex as much merely because I’m so exhausted and stressed week to week that I almost forget about anything else. (I coach at a local high school football and basketball)

At times it is hard enough to focus on my REAL job (consulting, the one that actually pays well, not coaching) let alone focus when I get home from a long day followed by a hard football practice.

I know my fiance “hates” football season not because she hates the sport, but she hates the effects on me. Gotta pull yourself away from game tape and analyzing tendencies and remind yourself it’s not as big as you’re trying to make it.

Our first year together was my 3rd year coaching football and luckily we had got together in the summer or I’m not sure she would have thought I was worth being with. The good thing is I’ve learned to relax a bit better and manage the stress and she has adjusted during the season as well. Like beans said, growing together and adapting to demands of the person you’re with.

Stress sucks though. It strains everything.

36

Who needs Lori Gottleib? We basically had this discussion on here a few years ago and concluded what Lori had to do a whole study on.

37

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

Just turned 28 and was recently promoted to Manager at her Regional Accounting firm. [/quote]

That whole preverbal “biological clock” thing isn’t fake man. It is 100% real, and I would imagine your irritation to her stress reaction is, at least, in part ot a biological response of “if you can’t handle this, how are you going to be able to handle offspring.”
[/quote]

Certainly wise beyond your years. That exact thought has crossed my mind multiple times.
[/quote]

I’m about to make a bunch of assumptions but here goes:

My daughter’s pediatrician diagnosed me with the “HD” part of ADHD in about 35 mins during her last appointment. And told us she is likely following in my footsteps.

Your chick sounds like me, although I’ve come to be able to control my hyper-sensitivity to stress. (I can get into that more if you’d like.)

So that being said, I would imagine this is a typical conversation your woman has in her head:

“Oh boy, I am tired. Probably because you lay awake at night wide awake in bed. Why can’t I be this tired at night, and that awake in the morning? What is the weather like today? Is the outfit I picked last night still appropriate? God damn Jonny can’t even roll cash, and they stick me with him on this job. Bobby Bossman is riding me on my time budgets. I wonder if the weather is going to make my hair look like shit. Ugh, traffic is going to be horrid this morning if it rains. Why doesn’t that payroll section reconcile? COuld it be the I deductions. I wonder if Pam is okay, she was very upset with Tony last night. Too bad they are a really nice couple. STupid Bobby never should have yelled at me about the stupid AR section, I missed a tiny mistake, that is why we have the review process, I’m only human. Ugh, my boobs aren’t as nice as they used to be, but if I get a boob job everyone will know and think I’m slut. I really dont’ want to shave today. I how Jonny has his shit together today, I need him to wrap his section, I swear if he is hung over. Maybe we should have steak tonight rather than chicken, and I can get a nice bottle of wine. Maybe if I skip breakfast I won’t look fat in my pants. OMG I forgot to go to CVS and get new foundation. I wonder if Bobby feels like a dick for ripping into Jonny? HOLY SHIT I HAVE A GRAY PUBIC HAIR!!! WTF!”

And that is just the trip from bed to the shower. Imagine how it goes during an hour commute in stop and go traffic…

38

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:

And about biology, I’m lucky I didn’t ruin my marriage in those years. I’m one of those women who is REALLY effected by the pill. Unfortunately, neither of us realized that until after I went off of them. I feel some regret now that we wasted what should have been some of our best years as a couple, when we were so young. It’s hard to parse it out in terms of cause and effect. I was younger, doing a poor job of coping with stress, out of shape, and on the pill. None of that was helpful.

[/quote]

lol, it is like you are my wife and posting here.

Once she went off the pill it was like a whole new world. And then, because she is super fertile she got preggers in like 2 weeks. So…

But in reality, she is the same way, the Pill did awful, aful things to her that we never knew was the cause of those things. Removing that from her system did wonders for her, and subsequently us.

I promptly got fixed once my baby girl came out healthy so she would never have to get back on that evil shit again.

39

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:

And about biology, I’m lucky I didn’t ruin my marriage in those years. I’m one of those women who is REALLY effected by the pill. Unfortunately, neither of us realized that until after I went off of them. I feel some regret now that we wasted what should have been some of our best years as a couple, when we were so young. It’s hard to parse it out in terms of cause and effect. I was younger, doing a poor job of coping with stress, out of shape, and on the pill. None of that was helpful.

[/quote]

lol, it is like you are my wife and posting here.

Once she went off the pill it was like a whole new world. And then, because she is super fertile she got preggers in like 2 weeks. So…

But in reality, she is the same way, the Pill did awful, aful things to her that we never knew was the cause of those things. Removing that from her system did wonders for her, and subsequently us.

I promptly got fixed once my baby girl came out healthy so she would never have to get back on that evil shit again.
[/quote]

Yep. We have three kids, so I’d go off of it and we’d attribute the change to “trying to get pregnant”. Then we thought the pregnancy hormones were some kind of aphrodisiac. In retrospect, I think it was all just my normal biology when not under the influence of the pill. Like your wife, when I went off of them for good when I was 33, it was like a switch was flipped. I wish someone had warned me. My husband was in his twenties and early thirties during that time. Not good.

You may have seen it, but Aragorn put up a link in my thread that about the effects of hormones. It was an NPR podcast that had a woman who went on T therapy as part of a sex change operation. She described how hormones effected her thinking. Dramatic. Cliff’s notes: She started thinking about sex all the time, and became a lot more visual in terms of noticing, and being distracted by women who were attractive.

About the article, the author talked about how when she talked to other women, they were defensive and a little angry with her for writing about it. Feminists are not going to be very open to anything that says there might be downsides to this, but I think you might was well be aware of the potential tradeoffs. For some of us, choosing more traditional roles will be advantageous.

"… when I was speaking about relationships at a conference and mentioned that I was writing about this topic, a large group of women who had just waxed poetic about ‘Fifty Shades of Grey’ suddenly seemed outraged. Was I saying people canâ??t have good sex in egalitarian marriages? (No, I wasnâ??t.) Isnâ??t marriage better over all when partners have equal power? (In my opinion, yes.) Then why write about this kind of thing? (Because when a roomful of women who just raved about ‘Fifty Shades of Grey’ donâ??t want me to write about ‘this kind of thing,’ that tells me it should be talked about.)

40

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

Just turned 28 and was recently promoted to Manager at her Regional Accounting
firm. [/quote]

That whole preverbal “biological clock” thing isn’t fake man. It is 100% real, and I would imagine your irritation to her stress reaction is, at least, in part ot a biological response of “if you can’t handle this, how are you going to be able to handle offspring.”
[/quote]

Certainly wise beyond your years. That exact thought has crossed my mind multiple times.
[/quote]

I’m about to make a bunch of assumptions but here goes:

My daughter’s pediatrician diagnosed me with the “HD” part of ADHD in about 35 mins during her last appointment. And told us she is likely following in my footsteps.

Your chick sounds like me, although I’ve come to be able to control my hyper-sensitivity to stress. (I can get into that more if you’d like.)

So that being said, I would imagine this is a typical conversation your woman has in her head:

“Oh boy, I am tired. Probably because you lay awake at night wide awake in bed. Why can’t I be this tired at night, and that awake in the morning? What is the weather like today? Is the outfit I picked last night still appropriate? God damn Jonny can’t even roll cash, and they stick me with him on this job. Bobby Bossman is riding me on my time budgets. I wonder if the weather is going to make my hair look like shit. Ugh, traffic is going to be horrid this morning if it rains. Why doesn’t that payroll section reconcile? COuld it be the I deductions. I wonder if Pam is okay, she was very upset with Tony last night. Too bad they are a really nice couple. STupid Bobby never should have yelled at me about the stupid AR section, I missed a tiny mistake, that is why we have the review process, I’m only human. Ugh, my boobs aren’t as nice as they used to be, but if I get a boob job everyone will know and think I’m slut. I really dont’ want to shave today. I how Jonny has his shit together today, I need him to wrap his section, I swear if he is hung over. Maybe we should have steak tonight rather than chicken, and I can get a nice bottle of wine. Maybe if I skip breakfast I won’t look fat in my pants. OMG I forgot to go to CVS and get new foundation. I wonder if Bobby feels like a dick for ripping into Jonny? HOLY SHIT I HAVE A GRAY PUBIC HAIR!!! WTF!”

And that is just the trip from bed to the shower. Imagine how it goes during an hour commute in stop and go traffic…[/quote]

That is literally what I walk in the door to every single day. I am exhausted, just getting in from work and the gym, want to shower and decompress and she starts as soon as I hit the door, then proceeds to get offended if I try to leave the room before the 2 hour long spill is up. It has gotten to the point where I cannot really go walking with her anymore (she loves to take long walks), because I am so keyed up when we get back I fill like I am about to have a stroke. I look at her and she was like that was an awesome talk, glad he sympathizes with me. All this shit that bothers her is so minute, her inability to process, pack away and move on astounds me. It literally takes me about 1 hr or mindless silence to totally forget about everything wrong with the world and I don’t need 3 hrs of discussion where she gets irritated if I don’t show the same level of outrage as her. I finally told her one day when she asked me why wasn’t I upset about something her or my mother had done (they are usually interchangeable annoyances in her life), that the only way I could get as uptight about something as that would be if they set my house on fire. It is almost like she just enjoys the drama so she creates it where there really isn’t any.