T Nation

Article: "Age Matters", Over 60?

I did. Turned my life around. My body now 5 years later looks better than it did at 45. My wife of 35 years calls me her arm candy.

From what (little) I understand about mTor, there are certain types of training that you would use to stimulate mTor. As you age, you should probably avoid this.

CT calls his slow eccentrics plus stretching mTor sets. The goal of those sets is hypertrophy. I think the idea is to drift away from hypertrophy focused training as we get older.

For me, that’s probably going to end up being a low volume strength program like 5/3/1 done three days a week with the standard four day template. That will spread the sessions out to keep the volume down and allow me to recover. That will be how I implement the “use it or lose it” approach.

So you find a sense of humor attractive…

*I recognize there’s no tone on the Interwebz - this was a joke

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What the hell are you talking about TFP? You are not even a part of this thread.
I was responding to weightliftingwithoutlimits. NOT you.

That was a quality zinger. Came across as playful to me… no need to get riled up.

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Thanks. That was my intent

I’m in my 60s now, still healthy overall, couple of joint issues mainly brought about by sports injuries when I was younger. I’m not as big as I was, not as strong as I was but basically expected this as I age and hormones change. I still look and feel better than probably 95 percent of people my age.
So why would I “hop onto trt” and the associated risks of imbalancing my hormonal system. Serious question, so please dont take this the wrong way , do you fellas do trt for health reasons or simply to get a better return from your training and look better?

Gazz

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TRT is meant for older guys with free test levels that are low to the point it’s a health risk. It is abused in our society. I know plenty of guys that are 20-22 on it. They are fine most likely with their T levels but they test low by the standards set in some of these clinics so they qualify.

If you’re happy with how you feel, look etc then don’t do it. It wouldn’t be a bad idea to get tested by your doctor though. he should be straight with you as opposed to trying to get you running T for profit.

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Why TRT ?
Exogenous hormonal manipulation doesn’t change life expectancy or fitness levels.
How does the rest of an age appropriate endocrine balance respond to TRT?

"[…] the Journal of the American Heart Association published a meta-study that compiled the results of over 100 studies on testosterone and heart health. They found, unequivocally, that higher levels of testosterone were essential to heart health.

In fact, the journal reported that low T was associated with a higher rate of mortality in general, along with higher rates of cardiovascular mortality, obesity, and diabetes."

Low T is shown to negatively affect cardiovascular health, bone health, brain function, mental health/depression, and more. Thinking TRT is strictly about muscle and bodyfat is short-sighted.

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The AMA has dwindling support in the medical community. Although I’m sure it still has a role.
Any study can be designed for the outcome desired. There are highly skilled professionals who do that for a living.
We are fortunate to have the choice to pursue TRT treatment, if it’s desirable to the individual.
I would just add that it’s been 34 years since my medical school graduation, and 28 years in practice as an Orthopaedic Surgeon. Medical literature is filled with studies designed to prove the results desired. Don’t confuse that with scientific research based on finding results without prejudice.
To each their own, be your own advocate. If it’s too good to be true… maybe it’s not?
No medical advice or treatment offered by this post.

Guessing you meant the AHA? They simply compiled the research. They’re not the ones who performed the dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of studies that all came to the same conclusion.

Do you disagree with the research that’s associated low Test with higher rates of osteopenia, osteoporosis, and fractures?

Yes AHA, not AMA. I don’t think they like egg yolks either.
Bone health, osteoporosis, osteomalacia definitely have a hormonal component. We have treatment to help prevent the development, and once it’s present. Definitely with potential side effects.
Interesting, a therapeutic Vitamin D level and impact loading exercises will go a long way to bone health

Honestly, Chris, I’ve never considered TRT despite my age. I’ve never had my T levels tested. Maybe niaive, maybe missing out, but as we age its natural that T production slows down. I accept this and in some ways don’t really want to know what my T levels are in case I begin to get preoccupied with them in the event that they are naturally low.
I appreciate you’ve given a lot of positives for TRT but reading through the TRT subforum (which ironically is one of the “busiest” sub forums on the site) it seems to kick up many issues in itself.
as I’ve said it would be interesting to see how many people are on TRT for genuine health issues and how many use it as a shortcut to body recomposition.

Gazz

Do you accept that it’s also natural to lose muscle mass, decrease metabolism, lose physical strength, reduce bone density, lose mental acuity, and have Captain Happy stop working as we age, or do you/would you take any steps to counteract those?

Not at all ironic that the Testosterone Replacement forum is very active on Testosterone Nation. It’s expected. You’ll find that the overwhelming majority of guys on TRT started treatment after developing noticeable physical and mental symptoms.

I’ve explained previously that guys just looking for a body comp shortcut are basically looking to do steroids, not use TRT. There’s a significant difference.

But, for sure, TRT is medication to treat a diagnosed condition and it comes with side effects to be managed just like countless others prescriptions. If you’re not up for it, no problem. But head-in-sand is a high risk way to approach health issues, whether it’s low T, diabetes, cancer, or whatever.

You need to get them checked.

We’re also living in a time when as men, our t-levels are at the lowest ever.

Men 40 years ago, in their 50’s, had higher test levels than men in their 20’s today.

You’re most likely low. And low test is connected to a litany of health issues. TRT is so common now because of all these issues.

Chris

Certainly not a head in the sand approach. The fact is I feel fine in myself so why would I want to go on medication with the risk of side effects.

I am health conscious and I would certainly not be so stupid to ignore symptoms of diabetes, cancer or any other illness. But is a naturally declining testosterone level due to aging classed as an illness which needs medication?

Google studies on the effect of high/low testosterone and TRT therapy on the occurrence of for example cancer and the results are contradictory.

" While testosterone replacement therapy does not cause prostate cancer, Dr. Bhasin notes that increasing testosterone could raise PSA levels, which may lead to an increased risk for prostate cancer"

" In the study, researchers found that, as a group, men prescribed testosterone for longer than a year had no overall increase in risk of prostate cancer and, in fact, had their risk of aggressive disease reduced by 50 percent."

" In the industrialized world, women live at least five years longer, on average, than men. … Now, a study that analyzes the longevity of eunuchs, or castrated men, suggests that testosterone may play a part in shortening men’s lives . The idea that testosterone , the male sex hormone, affects life span isn’t new"

" New research presented this weekend at the National Cancer Research Institute (NCRI) Cancer Conference in Liverpool has concluded that men with naturally low levels of the male sex hormone testosterone are less likely to develop prostate cancer than those with higher blood levels of the hormone."

So which is it, TRT as we age beneficial or detrimental. I have a family history of prostrate cancer, do I really want to take a risk?

Seems we must agree to differ.

Gazz

Testosterone treatment of men with low testosterone is common and, although relatively short-term, has raised concern regarding an increased risk of prostate cancer (CaP). We investigated the association between modest-duration testosterone treatment and incident aggressive CaP.

MATERIALS AND METHODS:

Retrospective inception cohort study of male Veterans aged 40 to 89 years with a laboratory-defined low testosterone measurement from 2002 to 2011 and recent prostate specific antigen (PSA) testing; excluding those with recent testosterone treatment, prostate or breast cancer, high PSA or prior prostate biopsy. Histologically-confirmed incident aggressive prostate cancer or any prostate cancer were the primary and secondary outcomes, respectively.

RESULTS:

Of the 147,593 men included, 58,617 were treated with testosterone. 313 aggressive CaPs were diagnosed, 190 among untreated men (incidence rate (IR) 0.57 per 1000 person years, 95% CI 0.49-0.65) and 123 among treated men (IR 0.58 per 1000 person years; 95% CI 0.48-0.69). After adjusting for age, race, hospitalization during year prior to cohort entry, geography, BMI, medical comorbidities, repeated testosterone and PSA testing, testosterone treatment was not associated with incident aggressive CaP (HR 0.89; 95% CI 0.70-1.13) or any CaP (HR 0.90; 95% CI 0.81-1.01). No association between cumulative testosterone dose or formulation and CaP was observed.

CONCLUSIONS:

Among men with low testosterone levels and normal PSA, testosterone treatment was not associated with an increased risk of aggressive or any CaP. The clinical risks and benefits of testosterone treatment can only be fully addressed by large, longer-term randomized controlled trials.

Thanks Paul

Do you see my issue though. For every study that shows elevation of testosterone has no impact or a positive impact, there’s a counter that shows negative impact. It’s a little like the volume/intensity argument on the main driver for muscle growth thread. Difference being, a few workouts with extra volume or extra intensity is not going to have potentially life changing consequences.

Gazz

You have to look at the whole body of literature and see what conclusions they make as a majority.

You throw away the outlier studies and go with what seems consistent. And that is, it’s more dangerous to have low test than to take a legit HRT dose.