Arrows vs

Bigger Stronger Leaner
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This is sort of a spin off from the bad ideas thread where “tactical” crossbow for law enforcement somehow became a topic.

OK, it was my fault.

Anyway idaho mentioned his dislike for the modern crossbow pictured and I had to post this for him and whomever else when I found the vids.

Arrows vs Chest plate

Video Description stipulates:
1.) 95 and 100lb. draw weight yew bows and 100lb laminate so low end for Brit war bows
2.) “High” Carbon steel chest plate 1.5mm(probably higher carbon/tougher than most period armor
3.)Arrow heads were not sharpened or hardened
4.)The archers do not appear to have a sufficient amount of rope coiled about themselves

Arrow vs Leather armor(with soothing music)

Longbow vs Crossbow speed comparison

Video and vid description has good info about the specific bows, and general period longbow vs crossbow issues

FIRE ARROWS!!!

Regards,

Robert A

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Robert,
Excellent!,You are intend a kind and compassionate man, thanks for posting, especially this morning with the dust and heat. Traditional archery has been one of the foundations in keeping my sanity.

The pictures are from Eaglewing archery and Bigfoot Bows, both are single bowyer shops in Oregon.I am a proud owner of one of each, they are master bowyers.

For fiction reading: I would highly recommend the GRAIL QUEST SERIES BY Bernard Cornwell, which include: THE ARCHER’S TALE, VAGABOND, HERETIC, and one published in 2012 titled “1356”

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Bow:

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Bow:

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for non-fic I always felt this is a must read for trad hunters. the few compound and crossbow people I know that read it we not impressed. to each their own.
The Witchery of Archery by Maurice Thompson. pub in 1878
full title- The Witchery of Archery: A Complete Manual of Archery. With Many Chapters of Adventures by Field and Flood, and an Appendix Containing Practical Directions for the Manufacture and Use of Archery Implements

2 ex-confederate brothers living off the land. after the war they were not allowed to own guns.

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I hate modern crossbows. Learn the art of archery feel the passion.

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[quote]idaho wrote:
Robert,
Excellent!,You are intend a kind and compassionate man, thanks for posting, especially this morning with the dust and heat. Traditional archery has been one of the foundations in keeping my sanity.

The pictures are from Eaglewing archery and Bigfoot Bows, both are single bowyer shops in Oregon.I am a proud owner of one of each, they are master bowyers.

For fiction reading: I would highly recommend the GRAIL QUEST SERIES BY Bernard Cornwell, which include: THE ARCHER’S TALE, VAGABOND, HERETIC, and one published in 2012 titled “1356” [/quote]

Beautiful weapons idaho.

I will look into the Cornwell material, since I tend to devour fiction books.

Archers/archery plays a pretty key part in the Emberverse series by S.M. Sterling as well.

The first three in the series, Dies the Fire, The Protector’s War, and A Meeting at Corvalis are damn good and aren’t too fantasy heavy. The rest have a bit more mysticism to explain the premise. Basically an unexplained external force sort of stops technology from working (electronics, gun powder, pressure/steam past a certain point of efficiency, ect.) and the world fucking breaks. A clan of Neo-Celts in Oregon get trained in archery by an SAS man with hobbies similar to yours who just happens to be on vacation. Assholes then face “arrow storm”. Hilarity/carnage ensues. Another group wins the early tech war with mounted archery because one of them had a passion for shooting laminate recurves.

Regards,

Robert A

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[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]idaho wrote:
Robert,
Excellent!,You are intend a kind and compassionate man, thanks for posting, especially this morning with the dust and heat. Traditional archery has been one of the foundations in keeping my sanity.

The pictures are from Eaglewing archery and Bigfoot Bows, both are single bowyer shops in Oregon.I am a proud owner of one of each, they are master bowyers.

For fiction reading: I would highly recommend the GRAIL QUEST SERIES BY Bernard Cornwell, which include: THE ARCHER’S TALE, VAGABOND, HERETIC, and one published in 2012 titled “1356” [/quote]

Beautiful weapons idaho.

I will look into the Cornwell material, since I tend to devour fiction books.

Archers/archery plays a pretty key part in the Emberverse series by S.M. Sterling as well.

The first three in the series, Dies the Fire, The Protector’s War, and A Meeting at Corvalis are damn good and aren’t too fantasy heavy. The rest have a bit more mysticism to explain the premise. Basically an unexplained external force sort of stops technology from working (electronics, gun powder, pressure/steam past a certain point of efficiency, ect.) and the world fucking breaks. A clan of Neo-Celts in Oregon get trained in archery by an SAS man with hobbies similar to yours who just happens to be on vacation. Assholes then face “arrow storm”. Hilarity/carnage ensues. Another group wins the early tech war with mounted archery because one of them had a passion for shooting laminate recurves.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Thanks for the book suggestions, I will place them on my order list. Concerning traditional archery, one of the largest traditional archery meets(Eastern Traditional Archery Rendezvous) is always held the last weekend in July at the Denton Hill ski resort, located near Wellsboro, PA. I have been very fortunate to attend three times and it is an experience. Usually have between 10 and 14 thousand traditional archers from all over the US and Europe, around 200 bowyers and vendors, plus 4 large shooting courses. A great time and an event that is well worth the time and effort.

There are several YouTube videos available.

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[quote]silverblood wrote:
for non-fic I always felt this is a must read for trad hunters. the few compound and crossbow people I know that read it we not impressed. to each their own.
The Witchery of Archery by Maurice Thompson. pub in 1878
full title- The Witchery of Archery: A Complete Manual of Archery. With Many Chapters of Adventures by Field and Flood, and an Appendix Containing Practical Directions for the Manufacture and Use of Archery Implements

2 ex-confederate brothers living off the land. after the war they were not allowed to own guns.
[/quote]

Yes, a great choice and should be required reading for all traditional archers. May I also suggest:

HUNTING WITH THE BOW AND ARROW: by Saxton Pope (early archery history in the US)

THE ADVENTUROUS BOWMAN: Field Notes On African Archery By Saxon Pope (1920’s hunt in Africa)

ARCHER IN AFRICA by William Negley ( African hunts from the 1950’s to the late 80’s, no one quite did it like him, taking all the Big Five with no firearms backup)

SAGITTARIUS by Bob Swinehart (a very rare book, but, well worth it,hunts in several countries (60’s-70’) and the black and white photography is amazing.

Anything over the past 20 years written by Dr. E. Donnal Thomas Jr., a traditional archer who has the soul of a poet.

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[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
I hate modern crossbows. Learn the art of archery feel the passion. [/quote]

You are so right, brother, so right.

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One more and I will shut up: To me , this picture sums up the golden age of traditional archery. Damn, to be standing there, 20 yards from one of the most aggresive animals on the planet.

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[quote]idaho wrote:
One more and I will shut up: To me , this picture sums up the golden age of traditional archery. Damn, to be standing there, 20 yards from one of the most aggresive animals on the planet. [/quote]

Fuck that. I am not standing that close to the horned devil with anything less than 45-70. I wouldn’t want to push it with a 12 gauge with Brenneke or Fed Tru Deep Penetrator. I damn sure am not doing it with a piece of yew and some pointy sticks.

EDTA: It wasn’t until repeating firearms that archers/bows were truly “obsolete”. The big issue was that it takes much less time to train someone to a “good enough” point with black powder, or a crossbow for that matter, than to create the weapon that is a skilled archer. Kind of an echo of the knife vs pistol discussion in the karambit thread.

Regards,

Robert A

As a side note, I think that photo really, really brings home the dis-service movies/books/pop culture has done for bows as weapons. Usually they are seen as ineffective/only good for wounding. The reality is a retinue of longbowmen was the “anti personnel artillery” of its day. One or two bowmen could make the woods a death trap for a hand full of heavy infantry or even a mounted knight.

I think that was the origin of “stun” arrows. Lords wanted their archers to constantly be trained and practiced, so they could hunt small game with essentially “blunt” arrows, but no broadheads (both to protect the trophy game and keep the feudal monopoly on force) and damn sure no bodkin style arrowheads.

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You are correct about the English Longbow being the “artillery” of the day. One just has to read about the Battle of Agincourt (1415) to realize how the English archers decimated the French Knights. I read an account about the process of arming the Continental Army, where Franklin wanted to arm the troops with English longbows.

Since the British were still using 14th century tactics, they would have been lined up in rows, putting them in prime position to be slaughtered by waves of arrows. (probably couldnt find enough bowyers or fletchers:))

You are correct about the “stun” arrows, they are called “blunts” today and are used for small game hunting and roving practice. As you are probably aware, under the feudal system the king owns everything, including the wild game. The old folk saying, “caught you red handed” comes from when the king’s enforcers would catch someone dressing out a killed deer.

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Pardon the thread resurrection gentlemen.

Idaho (or anyone else who cares to weigh in), how conducive is trad archery to self-teaching? For most practical weapons/hth skills I’m a pretty big believer in the idea that most people who are self-taught are often taught by fools. The bad habits ingrained can be more harmful than not training at all.

Part of the appeal with archery, however is the idea that I could practice on my own schedule, with limited ongoing costs. This is probably naive of me, but it sounds good in theory.

Thoughts?

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[quote]batman730 wrote:
Pardon the thread resurrection gentlemen.

Idaho (or anyone else who cares to weigh in), how conducive is trad archery to self-teaching? For most practical weapons/hth skills I’m a pretty big believer in the idea that most people who are self-taught are often taught by fools. The bad habits ingrained can be more harmful than not training at all.

Part of the appeal with archery, however is the idea that I could practice on my own schedule, with limited ongoing costs. This is probably naive of me, but it sounds good in theory.

Thoughts?[/quote]

Like with any weapons training or Martial Arts, a solid , basic foundation is required for consistency and accuracy. I would suggest acquiring a copy of a book called " Instinctive Shooting" by G.Fred Asbell. He has written 4 books on the subject, but, this was his first, published in the late 80’s.

Archery requires consistency on form, draw, anchor point, and release. His book is a basic primer that covers these steps in a very user friendly way and is inexpensive.

Yes, traditional archery can be practiced almost anywhere you have a backstop for the arrows. I have carried a take-down recurve bow in my backpack throughout the Middle East and South West Asia. I have shot in hangers, garages, landfills, behind T-walls, bomb bunkers, deserts, and river banks. In my house in the states, I have a shooting lane in the basement, plus targets and backstops on my little piece of land.

The greatest benefit from the traditional archery is improving your ability to concentrate, because after the basics are ingrained, your ability to focus will determine how accurate you are. I have heard that golf requires the same level of focus.

My ability to focus on shooting the bow has transferred over to shooting firearms, especially pistols, where focus on the front sight is paramount.

I have actually given training in shooting a traditional bow to some foreign units, just to improve their ability to concentrate on the target.

Yes, you can practice anytime that fits your schedule.

Besides, the flight of an arrow is truly a beautiful thing to see:))

Any way I can help, just let me know.

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I am slowly but surely picking it up. My only foray into traditional up to this point has been bowfishing for gar and Asian Carp as I use a compound for everything else. But the reactive shooting is not as hard as one might think.

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I shot for a truck this weekend. 43 yards, ping pong ball being floated with a air tank, had to go through he ping pong ball and stick in the target behind. I made it through the round of 20, 15, and 10 shots but couldn’t do it with 5.

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[quote]batman730 wrote:
Pardon the thread resurrection gentlemen.
[/quote]
No need. Resurrecting guys shooting things with medieval weaponry is always cool.

[quote]
Idaho (or anyone else who cares to weigh in), how conducive is trad archery to self-teaching? For most practical weapons/hth skills I’m a pretty big believer in the idea that most people who are self-taught are often taught by fools. The bad habits ingrained can be more harmful than not training at all.

Part of the appeal with archery, however is the idea that I could practice on my own schedule, with limited ongoing costs. This is probably naive of me, but it sounds good in theory.
Thoughts?[/quote]

I have zero practical ability in archery. My understanding is that it is important to have a bow that fits you in terms of draw, draw length(is that even a thing. Basically, a male gymnast and a pro basketball player shouldn’t use the same bow), and arrow length. Archery pro shops do this (not sure if they would all do it for traditional bows). Most also offer lessons to get you off to an “ok enough” start.

Something to consider is that if you are training traditional archery, or any traditional/esoteric pursuit, for focus/mental effect than it sort of changes the way “good” and “bad” are evaluated compared to combatives training, firearms use, ect. Idaho has writen about the benefits of mental and visual focus from archery carrying over into other more practical venues(specifically shooting and decision making in the chaos of violent encounters). So, if you improve your focus that is a win, even if you never develop into a an archer who would be a weapon when “shooting for blood”.

Musashi wrote about being able to find/practice The Way in all things, but I think archery is more likely to get you there than say, online video games. To that end I would start combing Amazon for the book idaho suggested.

Regards,

Robert A

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[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I shot for a truck this weekend. 43 yards, ping pong ball being floated with a air tank, had to go through he ping pong ball and stick in the target behind. I made it through the round of 20, 15, and 10 shots but couldn’t do it with 5. [/quote]

That is great.

I admit “shot for a truck” had me for a second until I gathered it was a contest.

Good job on going that deep in the competition.

Regards,

Robert A

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batman730,

In general it is good to see you post again. I hope you stick around.

Also, I hope you had success with getting hired on with an agency if that is still what you want.

Regards,

Robert A