Arrested For Not Showing License

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
What an asshole. He went looking for trouble and he found it. [/quote]

Exactly. And I hope he finds more.

A former boss told me a story of a previous co-worker of his. The guy used to use the company’s employee manual to get off doing anything extra (this was a bank not a union factory).

He would be in exactly at 9:00am, take a 30 minute lunch and leave exactly at 5:00pm. He would never help meet deadlines, assist co-workers and basically if he could cite a rule he would use it to his advantage. I realize this doesn’t sound all that bad, but we’ve all worked with others that know how to make your life difficult without breaking any rules.

Well eventually his boss got him back. The guy had a death in his extended family. He requested a week to go to the funeral (in a different part of the country). His boss sent him a reply back in writing, 3 days… with a photocopy of the portion of the employee manual outlining the required time for extended family deaths.

The guy in the blog obstructed the investigation and he should be prosecuted. He had the opportunity to diffuse this entire situation, but he choose to escalate it.

22

[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
What an asshole. He went looking for trouble and he found it.

Exactly. And I hope he finds more.

A former boss told me a story of a previous co-worker of his. The guy used to use the company’s employee manual to get off doing anything extra (this was a bank not a union factory).
[/quote]

Why should I do anything extra if I’m not given anything extra? It all depends on the work environment. If everyone else is pulling their weight and need an occasional bit of help, that is one thing. If employees are given bonuses or other incentives to contribute more, I also see your argument. Even if, during the interview, it was made clear that the job would require extra work on the part of the employee as a matter of course, I would understand. But if you are told that the job is 9-5 with a thirty minute paid break, and that you will be held to the standards presented in the employee manual, then you should also use the manual to your benefit. It sounds like your boss was just pissed off that someone was sticking up for himself.

[quote]
The guy in the blog obstructed the investigation and he should be prosecuted. He had the opportunity to diffuse this entire situation, but he choose to escalate it.[/quote]

You can not say whether or not what this man did was obstruction. The law as quoted in the blog (which may or may not be accurate) defines obstruction of official business as the delay of an “authorized act within a public official’s official capacity.” Is demanding an ID an “authorized act?” What if the officer said “Tell me if you stole from this store?” Not responding isn’t “obstruction,” and not only because the fifth amendment is superior to the obstruction statute.

Look, I am not qualified to say whether or not what he did was obstruction, and I doubt you are, either. But if you are, please explain.

23

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
What an asshole. He went looking for trouble and he found it. [/quote]

Ihre Papiere, bitte!

24

I don’t feel bad for him at all. Not one bit. It’s perfectly reasonable to ask someone to show a receipt when they’re leaving a store. From what I can tell of this guy, he probably did give them reason to suspect he stole something anyway. It’s also reasonable for a police officer to ask someone to show identification.

25

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
I don’t feel bad for him at all. Not one bit. It’s perfectly reasonable to ask someone to show a receipt when they’re leaving a store. From what I can tell of this guy, he probably did give them reason to suspect he stole something anyway. It’s also reasonable for a police officer to ask someone to show identification.[/quote]

Hell - they check your receipt every time you leave Sam’s. if you buy very many things at the Best Buy here - they check your receipt. You don’t have to give them a reason - they do it to everyone.

The guy was being a douche, and he was called on it. The cops over reacted, IMO - but I think the store had every right to ask for his receipt.

But lixy thinks he’s being a revolutionary. Maybe the guy should strap some bombs to himself, and really make a point.

26

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
I don’t feel bad for him at all. Not one bit. It’s perfectly reasonable to ask someone to show a receipt when they’re leaving a store. From what I can tell of this guy, he probably did give them reason to suspect he stole something anyway. It’s also reasonable for a police officer to ask someone to show identification.[/quote]

When he has cause to suspect something is wrong it is perfectly reasonable for a cop to ask for ID.

It was not like this clown was walking down a public sidewalk when he was accosted. This was not a random stop.

It is no wonder cops treat most people like assholes. So many people that they deal with on a daily basis are. The jackass in this story just makes it harder on the rest of us with his pathetic plea for attention.

27

[quote]nephorm wrote:
Ruggerlife wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
What an asshole. He went looking for trouble and he found it.

Exactly. And I hope he finds more.

A former boss told me a story of a previous co-worker of his. The guy used to use the company’s employee manual to get off doing anything extra (this was a bank not a union factory).

Why should I do anything extra if I’m not given anything extra? It all depends on the work environment. If everyone else is pulling their weight and need an occasional bit of help, that is one thing. If employees are given bonuses or other incentives to contribute more, I also see your argument. Even if, during the interview, it was made clear that the job would require extra work on the part of the employee as a matter of course, I would understand. But if you are told that the job is 9-5 with a thirty minute paid break, and that you will be held to the standards presented in the employee manual, then you should also use the manual to your benefit. It sounds like your boss was just pissed off that someone was sticking up for himself.[/quote]

Actually the story had nothing to do with my boss directly he was just in the same department at the time (no direct or indirect reporting relationship with either the guy or his boss).

As I understand it the guy was the type that would provide “yes/no” answer and not volunteer any additional information and this made others jobs more difficult. If he was ever fired, he would have had a good wrongful dismissal suit/out of court settlement since he could “prove” he did what was required.

Also, no my boss wasn’t pissed off it came up over lunch one day when when we were discussing an internally issued memo on employee conduct.

[quote]
The guy in the blog obstructed the investigation and he should be prosecuted. He had the opportunity to diffuse this entire situation, but he choose to escalate it.

You can not say whether or not what this man did was obstruction. The law as quoted in the blog (which may or may not be accurate) defines obstruction of official business as the delay of an “authorized act within a public official’s official capacity.” Is demanding an ID an “authorized act?” What if the officer said “Tell me if you stole from this store?” Not responding isn’t “obstruction,” and not only because the fifth amendment is superior to the obstruction statute.

Look, I am not qualified to say whether or not what he did was obstruction, and I doubt you are, either. But if you are, please explain.[/quote]

No, I’m definitely not an expert. I probably should have said IF this guys actions qualify as obstructing the investigation, I hope he gets prosecuted.

28

They ask to see your receipt every time you leave the store with your merchandise. Never felt my “rights” were being violated. It’s a store policy that applies to all customers.

I can’t wait to read Lixy’s next post about his friend having a problem with the “no shirt, no shoes, no service” policy.

29

and the point of this story is?

30

i don’t see the harm of waiting for a few seconds to show a receipt. Even though he may not legally have to, showing his receipt doesn’t take up anymore time or hinder him so why not just help the other guy?

31

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
When he has cause to suspect something is wrong it is perfectly reasonable for a cop to ask for ID.
[/quote]

At the point where the receipt matched the items in the bag, do you think the officer had probable cause to ask for ID? I don’t think so, but I don’t know so, either.

[quote]
It is no wonder cops treat most people like assholes. So many people that they deal with on a daily basis are. The jackass in this story just makes it harder on the rest of us with his pathetic plea for attention.[/quote]

That’s true. I think this particular case had three irrational people involved. The manager or loss prevention rep, who stopped Righi from leaving the parking lot, the officer who was probably pissed off by Righi’s attitude and didn’t understand the law well enough, and Righi himself for carrying this to its absurd conclusion. The officer probably brought him in, discovered that the law wasn’t what he thought it was, and had to put down some charge or other so that he wouldn’t release Righi without charges. It may be that, from a legal perspective, it is better for the department to press charges that won’t be prosecuted rather than make a tacit admission of incompetence by releasing Righi without charges.

My guess is that the prosecutor will decline to prosecute this case, or it will be thrown out by the judge. If the facts are as presented here… which is probably a long-shot.

32

One other thing, with regard to any suit against Circuit City: by admitting that he understood the policy of the store to check receipts, Righi may have tacitly agreed to receipt-checking as part of the terms of sale for the store. There is no expectation of privacy for items that the cashier has just rung up and put into his bag, when he has not yet left the store’s property.

The employee’s actions to stop Righi’s car from leaving the parking lot may have, however, been unlawful arrest or imprisonment. His unwillingness to show a receipt probably did not constitute probable cause for a citizen’s arrest.

33

[quote]nephorm wrote:
The employee’s actions to stop Righi’s car from leaving the parking lot may have, however, been unlawful arrest or imprisonment. His unwillingness to show a receipt probably did not constitute probable cause for a citizen’s arrest.[/quote]

Unwillingness to show a receipt may not be grounds for a citizen’s arrest, if that is what you want to call it - but suspicion of shoplifting most certainly would be, IMO.

I think you are right - three irrational players makes for a Jerry Springer moment, but had the kid just shown his receipt - all of this would have been avoided.

34

[quote]nephorm wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
When he has cause to suspect something is wrong it is perfectly reasonable for a cop to ask for ID.

At the point where the receipt matched the items in the bag, do you think the officer had probable cause to ask for ID? I don’t think so, but I don’t know so, either.
[/quote]

I don’t know but that is the way cops operate. Once you are involved in their business they want to check ID, look for warrants etc. They don’t want to be the guy that let go a most wanted criminal.

[quote]
It is no wonder cops treat most people like assholes. So many people that they deal with on a daily basis are. The jackass in this story just makes it harder on the rest of us with his pathetic plea for attention.

That’s true. I think this particular case had three irrational people involved. The manager or loss prevention rep, who stopped Righi from leaving the parking lot, the officer who was probably pissed off by Righi’s attitude and didn’t understand the law well enough, and Righi himself for carrying this to its absurd conclusion.

The officer probably brought him in, discovered that the law wasn’t what he thought it was, and had to put down some charge or other so that he wouldn’t release Righi without charges. It may be that, from a legal perspective, it is better for the department to press charges that won’t be prosecuted rather than make a tacit admission of incompetence by releasing Righi without charges.

My guess is that the prosecutor will decline to prosecute this case, or it will be thrown out by the judge. If the facts are as presented here… which is probably a long-shot.[/quote]

It is unfortunate that this crap clogs our legal system. I would love to stick Righi with the bill for this.

35

[quote]orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
What an asshole. He went looking for trouble and he found it.

Ihre Papiere, bitte!
[/quote]

How in any way possible does asking for this punks receipt equate to a National Socialist State.

Act like a Douche, get treated like a douche. Finis.

36

I think situations like this will actually hurt our “rights.” We don’t know the guy…hell,he’s probably one of those “touch me and I’ll sue” types. He has a right to that…just like he has the right to shop somewhere else if he doesn’t like a stores POLICY. Frivolous lawsuits take away from our rights in my and many peoples opinion.

Not many things are “forced” upon us like the guy in this story and others seem to think. There are issues that come closer to violating our rights in this country that are never addressed. People are so disappointing…I’m done.

37

Serves his dumb @$$ right.

There was no point to that.

38

While I can admire a “stand on principles,” I also think that some of those stands are simply not worth it.

Having worked with retailers often, they have a difficult problem to solve (shoplifting) while at the same time trying not to inconvenience too much the large majority of honest customers.

One of the toughest aspect of the whole problem is the employees, who are generally low paid and don’t want to (or simple aren’t smart enough to) employ proper judgment when dealing with those situations.

While I disagree with those practices (checking the receipts at the exit; Costco being the undisputed champion here) because they assume by default that everyone is a criminal; it’s simply a lot easier to show the damn receipt, wait 10 seconds and be on our way, instead of making a scene, delaying other customers, letting low-wage employees engage in a little power trip (probably the high point of their week). Here, the guy gets to meet an incompetent cop as a bonus.

Frankly, my time is worth more than that.

39

[quote]Valentinius wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
What an asshole. He went looking for trouble and he found it.

Ihre Papiere, bitte!

How in any way possible does asking for this punks receipt equate to a National Socialist State.

Act like a Douche, get treated like a douche. Finis.
[/quote]

I did not equate anything to anything.

I just translated “your papers please” into German.

You have an interesting association though.

40

[quote]orion wrote:
Valentinius wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
What an asshole. He went looking for trouble and he found it.

Ihre Papiere, bitte!

How in any way possible does asking for this punks receipt equate to a National Socialist State.

Act like a Douche, get treated like a douche. Finis.

I did not equate anything to anything.

I just translated “your papers please” into German.

You have an interesting association though.[/quote]