Need advice on Aromasin as a first cycle on hand AI , only reason I am on the edge about taking it is because I have easy access to it for a cheap price . Would rather Arimidex , though it would be much harder for me to get a hold of. Please any advice on dosing, sides & risks.
Need more info. The reality is, that you may not need any AI. Our resident Endo/Doc/steroid guru does not advocate ANY AI use, only tomoxifen (nolvadex).
I’ve used aromasin for every cycle I’ve done except for my last one because I was unable to get it, so I switched to adex. Aromasin worked great, didn’t really notice any sides that I could link to it, just be careful not to crash your estrogen, but that’s an issue with any AI. Start with the lowest possible dose and increase only if sides are present. This is all general advice of course, I have no idea what you are running and at what dose.
I’m like the least of an expert here, but I don’t subscribe to this newfangled anti-AI approach. The reason being that during my absolutely not extreme first cycle my E2 shot up to over 80, and I felt like crap. Well, it’s more precise to put it this way: i used veeery little AI due to the latest trends here, felt like crap, even thought I’d crashed my E2, THEN it turned out it was over 80. So, no confirmation bias there at all. It was simply high E2, and resulting lethargy, moodiness, brain fog, and bloating. Higher AI dose solved that, but admittedly screwed my lipid panel.
I still agree you should start out low. If you feel symptoms, run a lab, and if needed, adjust.
One more thing. I think Aromasin (Examestane) is superior to Arimidex in that it’s a suicidal AI. That is, the aromatize enzyme it binds to is permanently rendered “dead”. Therefore, no rebound effect when it’s stopped. Unlike with A-dex, where the enzyme can “break free” and cause an E2 rebound.
Estrogen rebound actually doesn’t appear to exist. I recently did some searching and there’s NO literature to back it up. A suicidal AI, given the mechanism behind how it works will just prolong the suffering associated with crashed E2 as the body takes time to synthesize new aromatase enzyme.
These drugs are for ER positive breast CANCER patients (and short kids like me)… Just kidding they should’ve never been prescribed for short stature… Why they’ve made it into the TRT world I have no clue. Sometimes, in bodybuilding I understand the notion of AI use… But this is in people blasting absurd doses like 2 grams of test/wk
I was prescribed and took for a prolonged period of time 7mg of adex/WEEK. Look at that number and be amazed
How did that feel?
Because too many people think they need 200mg/wk(>1000TT) to feel normal on TRT when in reality they would be lucky to keep a 120mg/wk mono T protocol under control without all the negative side effect that can be easily fixed with a proper dose of AI.
I’ve been in both places and have the blood tests and gyno scars to prove it.
Like the reason I have screws and permanent dysfunction in one of my ankles is probably due to the use of adex
Like the reason so many of my joints are stuffed is due to the adex
Like frequent hot flushes as if I was taking niacin
Like random bone pain after a few years
@hrdlvn I take 200mg without AI no problems. However it’s all individual
I was reading about adex and how it affects bones. It has me worried because I have degenerative authritis in my lower back (along with a slew of disk issues) I take a very low dose (.3 mg) E3D but it’s making me paranoid that it’s gonna fuck my back up even more. Is that a side effect of prolonged high dosage use or do you think that can happen using my doses a couple times a year on cycle?
Most of the literature I have read is studies on woman who have issues after taking high doses for years can’t find much geared towards men on cycle
You used throughout the cycle or only pct?
It’s related to estrogens positive effects on BMD. Crashing you’re estrogen is the culprit (this pertains to everyone including men on cycle)
Years of being on (prescription) 1mg adex daily and 1.5 years of hypogonadism had my BMD very low within certain regions of my spine (T score being below -1, avg was like -.8)
Below -1 is osteopenia, below -2.5 is osteoporosis
Oh fuck I did it again… bumped an old thread
I second the notion that a suicidal inhibitor aka irreversible inhibitor is inferior to a normal competitive inhibitor. With the second one you can fix an estrogen crash after 5 half lives and a bit of time for the conversion. Not so much with exemestane.
And damn! 7 mg is ridiculous !
I personally disagree if my estrogen is so high that it’s causing me enough problems that I absolutely need an AI im using aromasin I want that estrogen dead! I’m also experienced enough that 1. I would get lab test first to see exactly where my numbers were and 2. I know how much aromasin affects my nunbers at what doses. Let me also add that if thing got that bad I would probably just discontinue whatever compound in my stack that was causing the extreme spike in estrogen from my blast rather than using an AI.
I actually enjoyed this bump I think at this time I was running 750 mg of testosterone and it was miserable had I knew what I knew now I would have used aromasin at the time rather than arimidex. What’s interesting tho I was bloated and felt like shit and it wasn’t related to my estrogen at all I felt the same at high levels mid level estrogen levels and low estrogen levels. This is my determined that my body just does not get along with high levels of test and then it had nothing to do with estrogen I got to run 50 or 60 mg of dbol a day with no AI and feel absolutely amazing.
Usually effective inhibitors have a way higher affinity to the enzyme than the substrate. So they block it completely too, but only until they get eliminated by the body. The solution is either take more or take it more often. That should do as good a job as a suicidal inhibitor.
Yes, resynthesis isn’t a month long process too but it takes a few days if all of the aromatase is gone.
I know that’s probably not what you meant but the estrogen isn’t killed by exemestane. It’s eliminated in the liver as usual, there’s just not more new estrogen coming in through the aromatase. Wanted to clarify for eventual not knowing guys.
Right it was just a figure of speech.
Back when I used AI for the brief period of time I also found dosing much easier and forgiving with aromasin then arimidex. Seems I’d take 1/4mg of add and it wasn’t enough then I’d try a half a my and I was too much. For aromasin I could play with the dosages much more comfortably without dipping to low. I guess a solution for this would be making a adex suspension and micro dosing.
That’s the benefit of your long time experience with the two compounds which I don’t discredit at all. I was just speaking generally to the point “suicidal inhibitors are superior” It would be interesting to see if more people make the same observations with the difficulties of dosing adex.
Have a nice last evening of the decade guys!
NEW YEARS EVE WOOOOOOT… PAAARRRTTTYYYY!!! I mean… comfortable calm evening that lasts til 7am with family… all evenings go til 7am
just my anecdotes on aromasin and armidex.
i too 250 mg of test ena (pharmaceuticaul quality) for many months and never needed any kind of estrogen blockers. i get water retention and acne from test at doses higher than 150.
when i increased my dose to 500mg every 6 days (250 Every 3 Days), i decided to take aromasin, just in case. i took it every three days as well. i have no idea how this effected my E2 levels. but i never had a problem.
i was taking some weak 250 Sustanon test (by Cavlin Scott Pharmaceuticals). I was taking 500mg per 6 days. i was advised by my dealer to take armidex every other day. i did this. 1-2 weeks later my entire body was achine. i mean i have aches and pains in a dozen places (not normal for me). i injured my right arm. also never done this before. i decided to get some blood work because i suspected i crashed my E2. i was right, my E2 was 19, test level only at 19 as well (in the european system this is a high number 2.5x over max normal range limit).
so now, i do not know what to do. i think i will double up on the test and start taking armidex every three days. im in the third week of a 500 euros cycle, so this is very annoying.
Let the aromasin alone and if you get symptoms of high E2 you’ll introduce it again. Don’t take it randomly without having problems. Your E2 will take a while to come back too.
i will take your advice and stop the armidex.
how long does it take for e2 to return to normal range?
i took 500mgs of test yesterday to kickstart the process.
another question: i am taking primo and eq and lgd as well as test right now in my cycle. should the primo and eq increase my free test levels–i mean, should my blood test indicate increased levels partly due to taking these drugs?