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Arnold Schwazenegger and Intensity

In the book The New High Intensity Training by Ellington Darden he writes an anecdote concerning Arnold Schwarzenegger and his inability to bring enough intensity to the workouts whilst under the brief tutelage of Arthur Jones.

Thing is if this great bodybuilder cant bring the desired amount of intensity to this particular training protocol what hope does that give to the average trainee?

Darden goes on to report that Arnold at one point ( according to Casey Viator ) “…crawled outside and spilled his guts on the grass”. That shows me incredible intensity must have been employed by Arnold but evidently not enough to warrant him being afforded the respect of the HIT fraternity. It has been an extremely rare event for myself to puke when I workout so does that mean HIT is beyond me?

LOL @ HIT

From what I’ve read, HIT is usually reserved for the very seasoned lifter who can truly push himself beyond pain limits.

But as for this story about arnold, I think it might have to do with the fact that he was such a volume junkie. He’d train for several hours a day and as such, I just think he wasn’t considered “part of the club” But then again, what do I know? I’ve never done it.

Well who was better then Arnold at the time?

Nobody.

Saying that someone pukes because of a workout is kind of a cop-out. Yes, I’ve worked out intensely enough that I’ve felt extremely nauseous afterwards, but I’ve also worked out extremely hard and felt amazing(ly tired) afterwards. I don’t think it’s a tell-all sign of a good workout.

Not sure if that’s where this thread was headed or not, but that’s my two cents.

Puking comes from too many sets, too much lactic buildup and too little rest. Food in your stomach doesn’t help either!

You can seriously bust your ass and not feel sick. I used to do 20 rep leg extensions, 20 rep leg press and 20 rep sissy squats in giant-set fashion and I used to feel sick every time (my quads never grew better than that time too!)

I also have powerlifted and never felt the slightest hint of nausea.

I got a lot out of HIT actually and very rarely did I ever get sick. Only when I giant-setted legs was it bad.

I really like Arthur Jones (RIP) but his stories seem very exaggerated to me.

The one about picking Arnold up from the airport to drive him to the Deland Florida Quonset Hut and had to pull over to the side of the road and grab Arnold out of the car by his collar to tell him “You either shut up or I’m going to kick your ass right here by the side of the road” is just a little farsical.

he hyaauughh look at dah horses auuuuthuh heeeyauughhahughh lets plauy tha leaning game auuthaah

[quote]schultzie wrote:
he hyaauughh look at dah horses auuuuthuh heeeyauughhahughh lets plauy tha leaning game auuthaah[/quote]

I think I want to know what that means but I’m not so sure I care either.

Arnold trained with an extraordinary amount of volume and frequency. There is absolutely no way that you can bring 100% effort and train the way Arnold did. He accumulated his stimulus rather then getting as much as he could out of just a few things. Its pretty easy to get used to training like this and it is highly likely that his perception of “hard training” didnt involve as much effort on a set-to-set basis as What Jones’ boys were doing in Florida.

[quote]derek wrote:
Puking comes from too many sets, too much lactic buildup and too little rest. Food in your stomach doesn’t help either!

You can seriously bust your ass and not feel sick. I used to do 20 rep leg extensions, 20 rep leg press and 20 rep sissy squats in giant-set fashion and I used to feel sick every time (my quads never grew better than that time too!)

I also have powerlifted and never felt the slightest hint of nausea.

I got a lot out of HIT actually and very rarely did I ever get sick. Only when I giant-setted legs was it bad. [/quote]

I’ve heard that the nausea is due to the growth hormone release that this type of hypertrophy work causes. Low rep training is supposed to cause more testosterone release, so you don’t end up tossing your cookies.

I wouldn’t be suprised if Arnold got destroyed by a HIT workout. On the same token is you took a guy to trains exclusively with HIT and took him through one of Arnold’s workouts he would get destroyed.

It takes a while to make the conversion from one to the other and most people don’t like eating humble pie and will revert to their old ways pretty quickly.

[quote]BigBen72 wrote:
I’ve heard that the nausea is due to the growth hormone release that this type of hypertrophy work causes. Low rep training is supposed to cause more testosterone release, so you don’t end up tossing your cookies.

[/quote]

Actually, high lactate levels can stimulate high(er) GH release. I can’t believe that your GH levels increase very much and certainly not enough to make you sick even if it were very high.

I don’t see those guys using GH vomiting from the injections.

[quote]derek wrote:
BigBen72 wrote:
I’ve heard that the nausea is due to the growth hormone release that this type of hypertrophy work causes. Low rep training is supposed to cause more testosterone release, so you don’t end up tossing your cookies.

Actually, high lactate levels can stimulate high(er) GH release. I can’t believe that your GH levels increase very much and certainly not enough to make you sick even if it were very high.

I don’t see those guys using GH vomiting from the injections.[/quote]

A quick google search found nausea it listed as one of the side effects of GH therapy.

I’m sure some people are more sensitive to GH than others, and the effects of an injection and natural GH release aren’t necessarily the same. The human body it too complex to draw such a simple conclusion.

I got the GH - nausea connection from Arthur Devany’s website. He is a little out there, so I’m not taking that as gospel just yet, just thought it was interesting.

From what I under stand of HIT you are mostly putting your muscles into a lactic acid jacuzzi.

Slow on the negative really slow. Mentzer (RIP) was a great bodybuilder but did not start to be a zealot of it till after his prime and was Not Responsible for his size in his prime.

I’ve puked during a narly ass leg day. Too much caffeine, too many sets, narly rave music, no girlfriend, equals a grown man spewing a shot of banana cream flavored whey/ rockstar blue, oatmeal puke.

Any nausea I get in the weight room usually tends to accompany a whole lot of trembling/shaking that I always thought was from CNS burnout. Maybe I’m associating these incorrectly but they do happen together for me. In any case I get all these symptoms most often when I do too many sets to failure.

Also greasy food preworkout will ruin my time in the gym.

I read Darden’s book and I got the distinct impression that it was Arthur Jone’s main goal to break whomever showed up to him for traning. He (Ellington Darden) recalls that Dan Gable was the only man to show up for a workout with Arthur jones and make it through the entire thing.

I don’t find it suprising at all that given Arnolds strength he easily blew himself out training HIT style. I tried Darden’s BIG routine and it made me feel sick to my stomach right around the second round of Supersetting Squats and pullovers to failure, I think the arching of the back and lactic acid explosion did me in.

[quote]derek wrote:
I really like Arthur Jones (RIP) but his stories seem very exaggerated to me.

The one about picking Arnold up from the airport to drive him to the Deland Florida Quonset Hut and had to pull over to the side of the road and grab Arnold out of the car by his collar to tell him “You either shut up or I’m going to kick your ass right here by the side of the road” is just a little farsical.[/quote]

Yeah I always got that impression also. Seems strange though that in books intended to promote a particular protocol that an almost mythical degree of effort is meant to be achieved. Sort of puts you off it before you even start LOL.

[quote]BigBen72 wrote:

I got the GH - nausea connection from Arthur Devany’s website. He is a little out there, so I’m not taking that as gospel just yet, just thought it was interesting. [/quote]

I see where you’r going with that. And Art is pretty cool huh? I like him but I’m not 100% sure he’s all there! Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

I know of a bunch of research on increases in GH from high lactate levels due to high-rep/low rest exercise protocols.

Charles Poliquin was the first guy I ever read using that fact to his advantage many years ago. I’m no GH expert though and Charles is another guy that may not be 100% “all there”!

Another pet theory of mine is that on a very basic, survival standpoint, the body wants to empty the stomach ASAP when confronted with a very vigorous fight-or-flight situation.

Food in the stomach makes the digestive organs and the muscular system compete over blood supply (remember “No swimming after you eat or you’ll cramp up and drown!”).

When you are in (even a simulated) fight-or-flight situation, your muscles need all the blood/oxygen supply they can get. You’d rather puke out the contents of your stomach if it’ll mean not cramping up and better performance for “survival”.

I think exercise-induced vomiting is just the bodies way of getting the most out of your muscular system in an emergency either real or self-induced.

I’m reminded of a scene in which villagers wanted to see if a python or boa had swallowed a child or something else. If you’ve ever seen a big snake with a big meal in it’s body you’ll notice that it’s helplessly slow and unable to put up a fight or slither away.

All the villagers needed to do was make the snake fear for it’s life by teasing it and it regurgitated it’s meal. It was then able to get away and live on.

(BTW it was a baby hippo, not a child thank God)

Hard to imagine that a snake puking up a baby hippo was actually on-topic huh?