T Nation

Arnold/Kai Greene Exercise Form


#1

I've been watching some videos of arnold schwarzenegger and kai greene training and the form for two of the exercises seemed different then what I knew or read.

1) The first is rows >Arnold does this at a 120-90 degree angle. The start is something like the deadlift start.The thing is he doesn't keep his lower back straight>every where i read it should be straigth or in a little hyperextension.

Surely arny isn't doing the exercise wrong (this being his favorite exercise from what I\ve read. The explanation could be in the second exercise

2)kai green doind hyperextension He is advised to keep his lower back rounded at the start (to focus on his lower bak muscles more ,and he just had a herniated disc surgery)
so if someone knows to explain the form for these exercises (the way arnie and kay do them) [lease share ?


#2

for videos search google for

Kai's Video Blog: Feb 12 - Back Pt3 - Lower Back - Prep for the Arnold

and

YouTube - Arnold Talks it up + Bent Rows


#3

"Correct" form simply means whatever gets the job done the best, without causing injury. Some guys have problems with exercises like bent rows, and other guys don't (like Arnold for example, who had a very strong deadlift that was like 90% lower back anyway lol, so I don't think some 2 or 3 plate a side bent rows are going to bother his lower back much)


#4

I think I remember Scott Abel talking about something like leaning into the load/movement during rows. Which to me sounds having a slightlyt bent lower back during rows (like Arnold).

IMHO I think the risk outweighs the reward though. Many people got big with an arched back row. A little body english is acceptable though.


#5

I think as long as you feel the targeted muscles working your okay. besides those men are beasts, variation of form is okay when your lifting some HEAVY ASS METAL


#6
  1. They (Arnold, Kai) are training their MUSCLES directly using the implements at hand,

while

  1. You (like anyone else who prescribes a universal form/execution per movement to everyone listening) are merely "executing" a compound movement, likely based on aforementioned ad-hoc description that "promises" to work your muscles, and is in fact a great way for you to start off with - but will really do little for you physique-wise UNTIL you some-day graduate to training your MUSCLES through variations (sometimes completely different from what you knew or read) of execution or variations of the movements themselves - that you once started off with.
    \end{run-on sentence}


#7

Good response....too many words.

I personally like, "newbs should quit trying to find fault in the technique of PROFESSIONALS AND ADVANCED LIFTERS".

You don't gain that much muscle by training wrong. They would have ripped an arm off long before they ever got to a pro stage.


#8

you understand what's good form until you have greater notion/control over your muscles in a way that you give them enough stimulation during the exercise.


#9

Interesting ,where can i read more about this ,If i understand correctly you say that I have learn to isolate the muscle group first and I will be able to train all my back with variation of back rows for examples ?


#10

SIGH

Yes and no.

Look, you're not going to have any worthwhile lat-width (or trap size/thickness) without ever picking up the ability to flare your lats (or flex your traps) along the way....
on the flip side you can't just short-circuit your way to "feeling" your back muscles (understand their effective ROM, strength and speed curve yada yada yada) move the load the way a pro-bber does after years of training without first going through the "EAT and add weight to the bar" stages.

So you start off the way every beginner does - standard movements with youtube-validated form and add weight to the bar blah blah ... with ONE refinement: you actually pay attention (or try to) to your muscles working - where you feel the tension, soreness, etc - so you can use this information to modify/select movements/technique etc once you get to a more intermediate stage of training.

Even if you DO rapidly gain a mind muscle connection early on (thats never a bad thing from a bbing point of view) I'd STILL hold off on making any severe adjustments to your until you actually have some development to support your case (non-trivial size added with lagging parts/weaknesses clearly visible).

As for that euphoric/nirvanic state where you're "contracting your muscles" against resistance AND moving heavy weight with a form (power stroke) and range of motion (power groove) developed by years of educated effort - if/when you get there, your development will indicate it.

This is why people need to spend YEARS at this before blindly yapping away on forums.


#11

I'd like to thank , everyone for your responses, especially tribunaldude ,it helped me a lot.