Arnold: Great Bodybuilder or Great Charisma?

What about Serge Nubret? He was built like a brick shithouse and was probably the closest rival to Arnold.

yeah, i was watching pumping iron today for the first time, and i have a totally different perspective of Arnold’s physique, i really do think his is the best out of the others, and damn, i really feel bad for mike katz, what a great guy, and waller? what a jack off… completely unrelated on that last bit, sorry!

[quote]olympianiac wrote:
yeah, i was watching pumping iron today for the first time, and i have a totally different perspective of Arnold’s physique, i really do think his is the best out of the others, and damn, i really feel bad for mike katz, what a great guy, and waller? what a jack off… completely unrelated on that last bit, sorry![/quote]

You do realize how heavily edited and angled that documentary was to make for a better story right?

Mike Mentzer started this fat midsection nonsense, it got worse and added otherworldly size with Yates and hit the shitter with Ronnie. HgH belly has turned Olympia into a sideshow.

Give me Arnold, Haney, Zane, Makkawy and Nubret…oh and Ferrigno before he got over 300lbs.

I’m a noob, but I know what “looks good”…not being gay or anything, but I’d rather have the V-Taper with big chest and legs than the bloated look of most of today’s bodybuilders.

I think if you showed the public videos of most of the Olympia’s in the 70s and 80s they would enjoy those more than the shows in the 90s and today.

But, a preoccupation with absolute size has always been an issue in BBing. Hell, look at Gironda or Reeves compared to Arny. Gironda was too “ripped” for his day.

At the end of the day if the judges score high marks or otherworldliness that is what will be up there. I do think they are making a step toward leaner stomachs with Jackson. We will see.

[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
Mike Mentzer started this fat midsection nonsense, it got worse and added otherworldly size with Yates and hit the shitter with Ronnie. HgH belly has turned Olympia into a sideshow.

Give me Arnold, Haney, Zane, Makkawy and Nubret…oh and Ferrigno before he got over 300lbs.

I’m a noob, but I know what “looks good”…not being gay or anything, but I’d rather have the V-Taper with big chest and legs than the bloated look of most of today’s bodybuilders.

I think if you showed the public videos of most of the Olympia’s in the 70s and 80s they would enjoy those more than the shows in the 90s and today.

But, a preoccupation with absolute size has always been an issue in BBing. Hell, look at Gironda or Reeves compared to Arny. Gironda was too “ripped” for his day.

At the end of the day if the judges score high marks or otherworldliness that is what will be up there. I do think they are making a step toward leaner stomachs with Jackson. We will see.
[/quote]

bloated look? have you seen the v-taper on all the latest pros, phil heath, david henry, brandon curry, tony “v-taper” freeman, reigning mr O, dexter jackson - even kai greene, tho his stomach distends a bit, has one of the most aesthetically pleasing physics on the pro circuit atm.

And absolute size? Its “body building”, meaning putting on as much muscle as is humanly possible.

Arnie was my favourite, then ronnie now greene, all are huge for their day (and height… greene) and all just as if not more impressive than a guy with a bit of muscle and an aesthetically pleasing shape.

[quote]olympianiac wrote:
yeah, i was watching pumping iron today for the first time, and i have a totally different perspective of Arnold’s physique, i really do think his is the best out of the others, and damn, i really feel bad for mike katz, what a great guy, and waller? what a jack off… completely unrelated on that last bit, sorry![/quote]

So yeah, it was all “fo sho”

[quote]olympianiac wrote:
yeah, i was watching pumping iron today for the first time, and i have a totally different perspective of Arnold’s physique, i really do think his is the best out of the others, and damn, i really feel bad for mike katz, what a great guy, and waller? what a jack off… completely unrelated on that last bit, sorry![/quote]

He was definitely at his prime during the filming of pumping iron. I think that was his last win before he took a break from shows. Most people would agree the bodybuilders back in those days look better than today, and back then Arnold was at the top. To answer this topic’s question it would be hard to say he was not a Great bodybuilder, although who’s the best is just anyone’s opinion.

I’ll take the look of the old pros over almost any pro today.

[quote]olympianiac wrote:
i think that either sergio olivia, who had an incredible v-taper, and richG gaspari, how was ripped beyond belief and quit vascular too, are some great bodybuilders of that era that rival arnolds physique, IMO. [/quote]

Don’t forget Lee Labrada, one of the most under appreciated of his era.
Going back to Arnold’s day, Look at old pictures of Boyer Coe. Absolutely near perfect in symmetry and lines.

[quote]detazathoth wrote:
Who are these mass monsters of today?[/quote]

If you dont follow bodybuilding why are you in this forum? idiot

[quote]Professor X wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
Professor X wrote:
porkpie wrote:

Personally i prefer the old school build than the current mass monsters …

Name four of those mass monsters competing in this years Olympia.

kai greene, cutler to name 2. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing, but those guys are big beyond belief, and I think that’s what porkpie was trying to convey

Most of the people with this complaint don’t even follow pro bodybuilding. Not to mention that Kai Greene, while a ‘mass monster’ is nothing like the unaesthetic Rhul or Kovacs that most people fall back to.

People with no knowledge of what the top have accomplished recently sound retarded when critiquing the entire stage of bodybuilding today compared to other eras.[/quote]

Ah, once again you feel the need to try and belittle someone who has only posted a handful of time.
Well believe it or not, the number of posts on this site does not quantify your level of knowledge.

Plus you seem to be arguing about something that i am not even talking about.
How does this answer relate to the Arnold question ?

Every single guy on stage at this years Olympia will be bigger than Arnold in his prime…FACT.
I prefer the style shown from late 60s to late 70s.
Not sure how that will help the discussion about whether Arnold won primarily on charisma but if it makes you feel better, than thats good!

[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
Professor X wrote:
porkpie wrote:

Personally i prefer the old school build than the current mass monsters …

Name four of those mass monsters competing in this years Olympia.

kai greene, cutler to name 2. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing, but those guys are big beyond belief, and I think that’s what porkpie was trying to convey

Most of the people with this complaint don’t even follow pro bodybuilding. Not to mention that Kai Greene, while a ‘mass monster’ is nothing like the unaesthetic Rhul or Kovacs that most people fall back to.

People with no knowledge of what the top have accomplished recently sound retarded when critiquing the entire stage of bodybuilding today compared to other eras.

thank you X for that… big w/ striated glutes and quads and etc., is entirely different than…fuck it i’m not even going to explain myself. Phrases like “MASS MONSTER” need to stay the fuck on youtube, don’t drag that bullshit over here.
[/quote]

Wow, a lot of anger there.
Considering this isn’t a debate over different eras of bodybuilding, it seems strange that you’ve got so wound up by it ?

Tell, me in exams, did you fail alot for ‘not reading the question properly’ ?

[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
Mike Mentzer started this fat midsection nonsense, it got worse and added otherworldly size with Yates and hit the shitter with Ronnie. HgH belly has turned Olympia into a sideshow.

Give me Arnold, Haney, Zane, Makkawy and Nubret…oh and Ferrigno before he got over 300lbs.

I’m a noob, but I know what “looks good”…not being gay or anything, but I’d rather have the V-Taper with big chest and legs than the bloated look of most of today’s bodybuilders.

I think if you showed the public videos of most of the Olympia’s in the 70s and 80s they would enjoy those more than the shows in the 90s and today.

But, a preoccupation with absolute size has always been an issue in BBing. Hell, look at Gironda or Reeves compared to Arny. Gironda was too “ripped” for his day.

At the end of the day if the judges score high marks or otherworldliness that is what will be up there. I do think they are making a step toward leaner stomachs with Jackson. We will see.
[/quote]

Mentzer had a “fat midsection” in his prime? Yes, you are a noob. You are also someone who doesn’t know what they are talking about. Toney Freeman may just have one of the smaller waists on stage today next to Melvin Anthony. Newer Pros like Brandon Curry and even Phile Heath have changed the dynamic of what gets awarded on stage as of late and anyone paying attention can see this.

However, the problem is most of you are not paying attention yet consider yourselves judges based on pulling up names mostly of people who don’t even compete at the moment.

If you don’t even follow it enough to give credit where credit is due, how valuable is your opinion?

The bodybuilder above is “bloated” to you and looks WORSE than Haney, Arnold or Zane? They are completely different ideals and even comparing Zane to the rest is ignoring this.

[quote]porkpie wrote:
cyruseven75 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
Professor X wrote:
porkpie wrote:

Personally i prefer the old school build than the current mass monsters …

Name four of those mass monsters competing in this years Olympia.

kai greene, cutler to name 2. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing, but those guys are big beyond belief, and I think that’s what porkpie was trying to convey

Most of the people with this complaint don’t even follow pro bodybuilding. Not to mention that Kai Greene, while a ‘mass monster’ is nothing like the unaesthetic Rhul or Kovacs that most people fall back to.

People with no knowledge of what the top have accomplished recently sound retarded when critiquing the entire stage of bodybuilding today compared to other eras.

thank you X for that… big w/ striated glutes and quads and etc., is entirely different than…fuck it i’m not even going to explain myself. Phrases like “MASS MONSTER” need to stay the fuck on youtube, don’t drag that bullshit over here.

Wow, a lot of anger there.
Considering this isn’t a debate over different eras of bodybuilding, it seems strange that you’ve got so wound up by it ?

Tell, me in exams, did you fail alot for ‘not reading the question properly’ ?[/quote]

Gee, there is a debate over different eras…if you haven’t noticed, and it is mostly because most of you do not actually follow this stuff closely so your only extended exposure is from guys who have been on tv for the past 30 years.

This, however, ignores the fact that bodybuilding was not accepted more in the 70’s and those guys were still the freaks of their day just like Kai Greene is today.

Bodybuilding has never been for the masses. It has always been a niche activity…until gyms started catering to “everybody” who isn’t even serious so now weekend warriors consider themselves in the same class as those who push for an extreme.

Sergio Oliva was better developed in many instances than Arnold, but Arnold was the poster boy for Weider. Weider gave him exposure above all. That doesn’t take away from Arnold’s gifts as far as dealing with people, but anyone truly thinking no one has been better since or before Arnold is likely someone who just follows hype with little independent thought.

Another “bloated” pro.

Ewwww, the “BLOAT” here is just too much to handle!!!


Yep…let’s not notice the muscle development is on a whole new level, let’s just call this “bloat”. That way, we can act like no one has done better than guys over 30 fucking years ago.

My question was nothing to do with comparing the eras.
I merely stated my personal preference, or am in not allowed an opinion?

You began this ‘debate’ by saying:-
‘who are the mass monsters’

in fact you said this several times.

If you want to start a seperate thread about this, then fine, but my original question was a valid one and one that i was quite looking forward to arguing about ?

But, no, you feel by making silly comments and posting pictures, it will make you correct?
Are you the sort of person that thinks by shouting the loudest makes you right?!

X, did you notice that porkpie isnt the one talking about bloating?

Or were you too caught up by someone having a different point of view than yours?

Read the thred, BantamRunner said that “bloat” word, no one else… and stop posting pics, christ.

[quote]porkpie wrote:
My question was nothing to do with comparing the eras.
I merely stated my personal preference, or am in not allowed an opinion?

You began this ‘debate’ by saying:-
‘who are the mass monsters’

in fact you said this several times.

If you want to start a seperate thread about this, then fine, but my original question was a valid one and one that i was quite looking forward to arguing about ?

But, no, you feel by making silly comments and posting pictures, it will make you correct?
Are you the sort of person that thinks by shouting the loudest makes you right?!
[/quote]

I asked you who these guys were to see if you even knew. Do you know the guys in these pictures? Not knowing the top current guys would make your opinion about [quote]Personally i prefer the old school build than the current mass monsters[/quote] much less substantial than if you actually pay attention to the “current mass monsters”.

That is why others asked this as well but apparently the message was lost.