Arm Advice After Training Too Long Without?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1

Hello all. Here’s my background.

I am 38 years old, 6 feet, 210 lbs, 36 inch waist (real waist size as opposed to sucking in my gut to see what I can hold for 2 seconds) and have arms slightly bigger than 16 inches when flexed cold. I have been lifting weights for 20 years, have always subscribed to a less is more approach and consequently have done very very little direct arm work over the years.

When I first started lifting, I initially followed the Super Squats 20 rep program and have returned to it from time to time over the years and have always had good gains on it.

My current priority is to become stronger in the big three power-lifts with the intention of competing raw in about a year. I am eating very clean, consume 200 or more grams of protein per day, and believe I am eating a slight caloric surplus. I am indifferent as to what weight class I will compete in and expect to grow into the 220lb class before next year.

My training is based on Wendler’s 5/3/1 Boring but Big template 3 days a week (it takes M-W-F-M to complete a week)(I’m using weighted dips and rack chins for assistance on MP day). Recent lifts include:
wide grip pull-ups 3x8
medium grip bench 250x7
deadlift 350x8
squat 325x6
mp 140x7

My question relates to my secondary priority which is to increase my arm size. Normal human beings think I have large arms but my bodybuilding friends think they are way too small in relation to the rest of my physique.

At present I have tacked on a single rest pause set for biceps and triceps after my deadlift and squat workouts followed by facia stretching. (approx 12 rep max for as many as possible, wait 35 seconds, as many as possible, wait 35 secs and then as many as possible).

I would like suggestions from some of the grey hairs in the group on whether this is a reasonable approach given my background and priorities or if not what else they might suggest?

I work out in a well equipped home gym and feel I have recovery capacity to spare on my current routine and could add just about anything to the mix with minimal difficulty. Thanks for your advice.

2

Start training your arms. Add a considerable amount to your working weights for biceps and triceps exercises and eat enough to grow. That’s all you can do.

3

You could add an extra training day for your arms. Use high reps.

Check out Matt Kroc’s log for an example of a powerlifter that also trains arms.

4

Years ago when I was on a basic 3 day split focusing on the ‘big three’, my bicep work was very low volume, after a usually brutal back session. I would do 3 sets of incline DB curls, followed by 2-3 sets of BB curls, and that was it. Arms looked pretty good at the time (I’ve since had partial tears in both biceps though, so I look a bit more tricep dominant these days).

S

5

As regards Arms:

Your arms can handle a lot of frequency (probably more than you’d imagine). You can train them 3 times per week. Obviously, since you’re hitting them with other exercises too, you’ll probably only need to directly hit them twice a week.

I think you are worrying too much about the specifics when it’s just the principles that matter here. If you haven’t trained arms directly in years…why worry about facia stretching and rest/pause etc so soon? They’ll grow pretty well simply by devoting more volume to them (especially since you’ve been following a low volume approach so far…they’ll “blow up”! LOL).

Here’s a good question - how sore do your arms feel after your workouts, compared to other muscle groups like back, for example? Well, then, you can give them more training/volume…

It’s not very often that one can say “just do it more”, but in the case of arms (and because you don’t already give them much volume), it IS that simple (there’s no other muscle group that severely “holds them back”).

All you need to do is make sure you don’t have too much OVERALL volume (which would overload the CNS) - make substitutions; take sets away from deadlifts, squats and pullups for example. That’ll give your arms plenty recovery ability. In other words, don’t just ADD volume to an already “up to the limmits routine”. You can increase overall volume to some extent, since it’s just arms, but only to a certain degree.

Sometimes it’s hard to make progress on direct arm work (compared to big compound movements) because of the lack of progression. For example, adding 2% to your bench would be something like 5lbs (manageable), but 2% to your dumbbell curl would only be something like 1lbs to each dumbbell (depending on how much you would curl) not many people have an increment this small. But, it’s hard to add 5lbs to EACH arm when making progress with dumbbells. Even 5lbs to the barbell for barbell curl is a pretty big jump for arms. You can counteract this by making the rep range pretty high (e.g. 12-15) - this makes progression much more progressive (using the rep progression method). Or/And, you can do compound movements that hit the arms well:

Exercises such as close grip chins/benching (for bi’s and tri’s) are great for progressive load amongst other things. Then you could finish them off with high rep, direct work, like tricep pushdowns and bicep curls. You could do this on a MON - FRI - WED - MON routine, that would be a great start. Start off with just one set each, and see how you go :slight_smile:

PS - Watch your pushing movements go up now that you’re strengthening the triceps LOL.

6

You need to make arms a priority, more than a single rest pause set. It wasn’t exactly clear, but you imply that you haven’t done any arm specialization in 20 years of training. Your upperbody lifts should shoot up.

7

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
You need to make arms a priority, more than a single rest pause set. It wasn’t exactly clear, but you imply that you haven’t done any arm specialization in 20 years of training. Your upperbody lifts should shoot up.[/quote]

Thanks. I should have been clearer. I have on occasion done direct arm work but have never taken it seriously for any significant length of time.

I did try Staley’s EDT for arms program about a year an a half ago (3 month specialization)and had my arms up to a little shy of 17 inches cold but when I returned to my normal style of training plus some direct arm work thrown in here and there, my arms shrunk to slightly bigger than before the specialization program over the course of 6 weeks.

I concluded the program had induced chronic edema for a three month span rather than an inch of real muscle growth.

8

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Years ago when I was on a basic 3 day split focusing on the ‘big three’, my bicep work was very low volume, after a usually brutal back session. I would do 3 sets of incline DB curls, followed by 2-3 sets of BB curls, and that was it. Arms looked pretty good at the time (I’ve since had partial tears in both biceps though, so I look a bit more tricep dominant these days).

S
[/quote]
Thanks. I think I’ll give that a try.

9

[quote]gerald wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
You need to make arms a priority, more than a single rest pause set. It wasn’t exactly clear, but you imply that you haven’t done any arm specialization in 20 years of training. Your upperbody lifts should shoot up.[/quote]

Thanks. I should have been clearer. I have on occasion done direct arm work but have never taken it seriously for any significant length of time.

I did try Staley’s EDT for arms program about a year an a half ago (3 month specialization)and had my arms up to a little shy of 17 inches cold but when I returned to my normal style of training plus some direct arm work thrown in here and there, my arms shrunk to slightly bigger than before the specialization program over the course of 6 weeks.

I concluded the program had induced chronic edema for a three month span rather than an inch of real muscle growth. [/quote]

It needs to be consistent.

“If you don’t use it, you loose it”

No need to jump two feet first into a HIGH volume specialisation program for arms (e.g. EDT) when you weren’t even doing much consistent direct work before…

Just increase volume for the arms until you’re gaining - and stick with it. I don’t know many bodybuilders with huge arms who don’t consistently directly train their arms with decent volume.

I can’t stand people who ONLY train their arms, but at the same time, it’s very hard for your arms to outgrow other body parts like back/chest…so they deserve some consistent volume/training (within reason). Once a week with a few sets will unlikely be enough. You should do them at least every 5/6 days.

10

[quote]MODOK wrote:
Train your arms three days a week at the end of your normal training session. Use 3 different rep ranges, a different one on each day 13-15, 10-12, and 8-10- choose one exercise per day…3 sets only. Train each set to failure.

That will fix your arms. Guaranteed. [/quote]

You better mention the progression-part, too… This is the internet, after all.

11

[quote]gerald wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
You need to make arms a priority, more than a single rest pause set. It wasn’t exactly clear, but you imply that you haven’t done any arm specialization in 20 years of training. Your upperbody lifts should shoot up.[/quote]

Thanks. I should have been clearer. I have on occasion done direct arm work but have never taken it seriously for any significant length of time.

I did try Staley’s EDT for arms program about a year an a half ago (3 month specialization)and had my arms up to a little shy of 17 inches cold but when I returned to my normal style of training plus some direct arm work thrown in here and there, my arms shrunk to slightly bigger than before the specialization program over the course of 6 weeks.

I concluded the program had induced chronic edema for a three month span rather than an inch of real muscle growth. [/quote]

Alot of the specialization programs for biceps do use alot of volume and the biceps respond quickest of any muscle to a good pump, but like you said it’s often not solid muscle.

If your looking for longer lasting effect, I would try another few months specialization then when you go back to your normal program keep in at least a few sets of curls every two weeks or so to maintain.
The other thing that can really help is program design. I’m sure you do Rows and pull Ups and Close Grip Benches Dips and such, but planning it correctly can maintain or even enhance your arms pretty well. For example a Bench Day in the beginning of the week for chest. You can go hard and heavy, then do higher rep skull crushers or extensions for tri’s. Then at the end of the week do med/close grip bench and dips. It’ll still help your bench but will help your tri’s also.

Same thing with rows and pull-ups, slight changes in angle or which muscle you activate first can effect how it hits your arms. Program design can keep it so you don’t have to add a ton of sets of curls and still make some gains.

12

[quote]MODOK wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]MODOK wrote:
Train your arms three days a week at the end of your normal training session. Use 3 different rep ranges, a different one on each day 13-15, 10-12, and 8-10- choose one exercise per day…3 sets only. Train each set to failure.

That will fix your arms. Guaranteed. [/quote]

You better mention the progression-part, too… This is the internet, after all.

[/quote]

LOL- yeah…thanks for the proof-read. Can never be too thorough on here. :)[/quote]

What!?! You mean, I can’t just use the same weight/same reps/same exercises and grow in perpetuity?

Thanks Modok and C_C. This is exactly the type of advice I was looking for.

13

for about the last 4 years I have not trained arms directly and rarely benched. Right now, as of the last week, I am doing a chest and arms specialization focus.

I feel like a total bro, except I am like the weakest of all the bros on many bro exercises haha.

Very encouraging that you guys say

  • progress will be quick to even me out
  • core lifts will go up
    yipee
14

I started implementing spider curls those work really well for direct isolation

15

[quote]MODOK wrote:
Train your arms three days a week at the end of your normal training session. Use 3 different rep ranges, a different one on each day 13-15, 10-12, and 8-10- choose one exercise per day…3 sets only. Train each set to failure.

That will fix your arms. Guaranteed. [/quote]

MODOK, please expand on this. Just trying to understand what you mean.

When you say ‘train your arms… one exercise per day… to failure’, do you mean per muscle group (ie. bis and tris), or just one side of the arm?

So, day 1 (13-15), day 2 (10-12), day 3 (8-10)-- triceps only? biceps only? both?

16

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]MODOK wrote:
Train your arms three days a week at the end of your normal training session. Use 3 different rep ranges, a different one on each day 13-15, 10-12, and 8-10- choose one exercise per day…3 sets only. Train each set to failure.

That will fix your arms. Guaranteed. [/quote]

MODOK, please expand on this. Just trying to understand what you mean.

When you say ‘train your arms… one exercise per day… to failure’, do you mean per muscle group (ie. bis and tris), or just one side of the arm?

So, day 1 (13-15), day 2 (10-12), day 3 (8-10)-- triceps only? biceps only? both?[/quote]

train both bis and tris thrice per week (you don’t have to train them together the same day either).
After warm-ups, he means three work sets (heaviest first, then reduce weight to stay in rep range).
Similar to the BBB program… Read the BBB thread if you want more info.

17

[quote]MODOK wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]MODOK wrote:
Train your arms three days a week at the end of your normal training session. Use 3 different rep ranges, a different one on each day 13-15, 10-12, and 8-10- choose one exercise per day…3 sets only. Train each set to failure.

That will fix your arms. Guaranteed. [/quote]

MODOK, please expand on this. Just trying to understand what you mean.

When you say ‘train your arms… one exercise per day… to failure’, do you mean per muscle group (ie. bis and tris), or just one side of the arm?

So, day 1 (13-15), day 2 (10-12), day 3 (8-10)-- triceps only? biceps only? both?[/quote]

train both bis and tris thrice per week (you don’t have to train them together the same day either).
After warm-ups, he means three work sets (heaviest first, then reduce weight to stay in rep range).
Similar to the BBB program… Read the BBB thread if you want more info.

[/quote]

Hey, how did you know all of that? You must be one of them smart ones…[/quote]

Knowing everything about you is part of my job.

Er.

Nevermind.

18

Do you guys (MODOK and C_C) train your arms DIRECTLY three times per week? I was under the impression that most advanced lifters like yourselves do direct work for muscle groups twice/week at most (usually)…

I would imagine that one CAN easilly do this, but would have to “pull back” at some point?

19

ijm I don’t do it at the moment… And I think Modok is back down to twice a week, too.
But the OP is not an advanced lifter, see? Also, if I ramp instead of doing the 3 sets as regular sets, I can do it still (seeing as it’s only 3 exercises each for bis/tris total per week, spread out over 3 sessions or 6 or whatever)

20

C_C, Modok, thanks. Was asking just to clarify because I’ve been doing something similar, but not so structured (plus, I write a lot of IT tech manuals, so I like to clarify those pesky little details…)

Was doing Chest/Tris, Back/Bis, but past few months I’ve gotten to where I have little in the tank left for isolation after those workouts, so on chest day, when I’m done, I curl the bar with a little weight on it for somewhere around 20 reps or so (to fail). I’ve hit tris just by doing the presses, etc.

Back day gets bi’s somewhat, then after I might do triceps pushdowns, high reps to fail (one set before I leave).

Leg day is just legs :wink:

Shoulder day gets tri’s again

Arm day (tris/bis)-- I go heavier on this day.

Ditto rear delts. I get them on shoulder day, indirectly (or directly on back day), and like, today I did just cardio and abs, but did one set of rear delt flyes (reverse pec dec) for about 22 to fail.

So, I’m getting some stimulation in different rep ranges 2-3x’s per week, just in a different way than suggested.