I am taking 100mg test cyp/wk (2 injections) and now my doctor has added HCG and Arimidex.
On tnation forums it is recommended to take 1mg/wk in divided doses.
My test was in the 900’s and my E2 was 52. My doc wrote me a prescription but he said he wanted me to take 1mg EVERY day for one month. I told him I just wanted to take 1mg/wk divided up. He said I needed the 1mg every day for a month to get my e2 down. Then he said I could take it as 1mg/wk.
Does that make sense? What do you guys think?
I haven’t seen how or if my insurance will even cover this. I am broke after buying HCG. If it won’t be covered I’ll order the Liquidex. I told him about that and he said that sounded good to.
One mg. per week of anastrozole (liquid gray market stuff) in divided doses every other day drove my E2 from 49 to “under 20”, the lower limit that the test is reported. Could have been 19, could have been zero. It appears to work fast.
One mg. per day is a typical dose given to women with breast CA to completely suppress their estrogen production. That much in a man would probably drive estrogen down to undetectable levels. Men need some estrogen to feel OK and maintain joint health and libido. KSman says that an E2 of 22 works well for him. Not sure about myself, yet.
One mg of adex a week is the right place to start. In theory (I may be wrong) if you take 1mg a week of adex, you should have your E2 level cut in half. Some guys will need more than the “standard” dose (like me) and others will need less. I suggest you take 1-1/2mg’s this week to front load the adex, then 1mg a week for the rest of the month and see where your E2 levels are at. If they do drop in half, you should start to notice it. Higher energy, libido, and being clear headed more often are just a few of the benefits of lowered E2.
Front loading: I used to recommend that to get serum levels up faster. But if one is an adex over-responder, front loading can make one feel really bad for a week or so. With cause, I do not recommend front loading any more. Steady adex EOD dosing will take about 7 days to reach steady state serum levels.
Ignore your doc, he is clueless. Adex is very fast acting, within a few hours. As soon as you absorb it, it is working. E2 production rates drop very fast and E levels decline at a rate controlled by your liver P450 enzymes. Your body soon reaches a new balance of E production and E removal.
Pills are a pain in the butt for EOD dosing. Liquid products are really superior for dose management and in man cases, cost management.
I appreciate the help. I’ll do the 1mg/wk. I thought the 1mg a day was way off. My doctor is a really cool guy. You say he is clueless, but he is learning. He said he has learned a lot from me and I tell him I learned it from this forum.
He was doing 200mg of test every 2 weeks like most docs. He now likes the twice a week dose thanks to people like you KSMAN. I mentioned the book “The Testosterone Syndrome” to him last Spring and the next time I went to see him, it was on his desk with book marks. It looked thoroughly read. I have given him Printouts from here on E2, HCG, Test… you name it. He eats it up. He basically ask me what I want everything to be and I suggest something and back it up with facts like you guys mentioned above… He says yes that sounds right, lets go with that then.
He said he has had a lot of men in the last few years come to him for TRT. Hopefully those men will all be on Test, HCG, and Arimidex using KSMAN’s protocol or something very similar. There may be individual tweaks for each person but that protocol will get them headed in the right direction.
That is a really an excellent outcome that will help others!
That ‘book’ is good but does mislead re injections and was pre anastrozole for men. I assume that you have pointed out the shortcomings of the book.
He may want to read “Sexual Health for Men”, Richard F. Stark MD. It is a dry read but fills in some things that he would need to know for a broader patient base.
Yes I most certainly pointed out that the book was a bit older than the current information. I went through why I wanted the multiple doses of testosterone, and why I needed Arimidex, and HCG (info from this site). He said that all sounded great and made sense, but he wanted to hold off on the last two and see what my blood test showed.
I went back a month later with my wife on her appointment with a different doctor (same clinic). He seen me and asked how I felt on the Arimidex?? I said you wanted to hold off. He said “I did”. Next time I went in my E2 was like 9!! The test must have been messed up. This time it was 52 and 3 times ago it was in the 40’s. So he Rxed it for me.
On my appointment, I was ecstatic and couldn’t wait to tell him how I was feeling. When I left he said he was going to get his checked to
But he did say all the info I gave him (99% from here with the exception of some Crisler stuff and the Shippen book recommendation) was extremely helpful and would definitively benefit his other patients, and maybe himself.
And thanks for the other book recommendation. I’ll check it out.
I’m on 1mg per week right now and my estradiol level is down to 9 (according to my doc, a specialist in what is now supposedly called “age management”) it should be 10-40, so I’m going to have to cut back from 1mg per week. I mention this only to confirm that 1mg per day is completely off the mark, but you’ve already figured that out.
Yes, and thanks David. I’ll try the 1mg/wk using Liquidex and go up or down with the dose depending. I was hoping to get two more blood test in before Christmas since my deductible starts over but that looking slim.
I appreciate it saveski. I’ll definitely go read through it.
Trying to understand your calculations:
I see saveski E2 was 29 and and I understand the optimal is 22.
To get a dose adjustment you multiply the (current strength tablet)*(current E2)/(desired E2). Then just adjust as close as you can get. Like the 1.25/2 would = around .63 which is close to the .66.
I bet this would be easy using Liquidex.
Speaking of Arimidex, is there a better time to take it, morning or evening? I do Test shots in the morning. I read it had a bad aftertaste and to take it with something like lemon water.
Put drops of adex into a shot glass, add water, drink, add water and drink again. Really no taste issues at all. Take any time of day. Absorbs well with or without food. Dose depends on ones serum T levels. Some are are over responders and may need to take 1/4th of the expected dose.
While we are on the subject, I just got my doc to perscribe the Arimidex and my insurance company did not even require preapproval. The catch is the stuff cost a fortune at the local pharmacy. I think it was $248. My insurance company covered $200 and I paid the 48 or something close to that. I wanted to see if this was a route worth pursueing and I suspect I’ll stick with the liquid stuff I’ve purchased from iron dragon. They add something to it to make it taste good enough to just squirt into the mouth. I checked the pump volume today by shooting three pumps into a .5 cc syring that I use for hcg and it clearly showed .375 ml. That works out to .125 per pump. That may not be as accurate as a dropper but it dose show that a .5 syring is usefull for checking out just how much a drop or a squirt is from your liquidex.
dhickey- 3 drops huh. I haven’t used liquidex but I measured out Chemones product several times and 26 drops = 1mg. That would be 4 drops 5 days of the week and 3 drops for 2 of the days. Since my E2 was 52 I’m hoping that cuts it to 22. If it goes a little lower/higher I’ll adjust it from there.
At least on the next blood test I’ll have some numbers to plug into that equation to see how much I need to go up or down. Like mentioned above I could be an over or under responder. I guess we are all a bit different.
bigdawg011- I didn’t think about my Dr. having to prescribe it like that because of the cancer thing. I told him about the liquid Arimidex and that I was planing on ordering that, but just in case I needed it to write a script. He said that sounded fine. The price for the liquid or pill (after insurance) was about a $10 dollar difference, but with the liquid I got twice as much, and it’s a lot easier to take.
GeoBob- My insurance took about a month to approve Testosterone, but required no preapproval of Arimidex either. The pharmacist said it was $400+…OUCH!! (for 30 1mg tabs) and 80 something after insurance. I went ahead and just ordered the liquid stuff from Chemone. It was in the mailbox about 3 days later! It smells decent but after everyone said how bad liquid Arimidex tasted I just put it in a bottle of water. It helps me get more water in anyway.
KSman- Why “Do not refrigerate”. I looked on the bottle and it didn’t say to so I did not refrigerate it. How cold can it get? I keep the house at 55 (is that ok??) during the Winter so the bill doesn’t go sky high… plus I like the cold! ( I can’t stand the summer!)
I may go ahead and order some of the liquidex. Thanks for the info. Anyone found a good on line pharmacy for the Test. I’m being charged 110 at CVS. I have the perscription. If its cheep enough I may just forget about the insurance issue
Anastrozole is barely able to dissolve in water. With the water based products, if chilled, the anastrozole may crystallize out and then its hard to keep in solution for some reason, even after heating. With products that are dissolved in glycerol and/or PEG there probably is no concern. If the product has some alcohol in it, it will be stable.
He said 3 pumps not drops. He has a pump dispenser, not a dropper. You will need to adjust your dose at some point and all you need now is a dose baseline. 1mg/week is a good start, but nothing magic considering different body weight, %BF and other variables. It will be easier to take 4 drops ED or 8 drops EOD. The half life works very well with EOD dosing.
When T levels rise and fall with less frequent injections, the serum anastrozole levels are mostly not right. Steady T levels from EOD T injections create a situation where anastrozole can work best. It seems that anastrozole needs can increase over time for some, even when TRT leads to a major reduction in %BF. So doses may need to increase over time. I need 2.625mg/wk for a 175mg T cyp, which is 1.5mg per 100mg test cyp. A dose specific increase of 50% over what worked well for me initially.
And over time my TT and FT levels fell, indicating an increased clearance rate of T. We increased my T dose to try to get my FT levels high and that worked. Now Labcorp will not report actual readings and I will have to find a new lab. The point of this is that one’s needs for anastrozole [and T] may not be fixed and dosing changes can be expected. We now target FT levels and really do not care how high TT goes as TT is really more of a measure of SHBG bound T.
[My SHBG levels should be lowered by the higher T levels and that can explain how my FT increase was disproportionately higher than the increase in T (125–>175)]. My albumin also increased and that increases bio-T as most of bio-T is T weakly bound to albumin. It is FT and bio-T that drives T–>E aromatization. Higher FT and bio-T can be expected to increase anastrozole needs. SHBG bound T is probably not participating in T–>E aromatization.
GeoBob: Watch for on-line pharmacies shipping from out of the country. Importing T [or hCG] your self is always criminal even if you have a script. I get 10ml 200mg/ml test cyp [Watson’s] from Sam’s Club with a business membership for around $42.00. Some get good prices at Costco.
