T Nation

Arimidex, Metaformin, for the chubby people? (What do you think Mr. Roberts?)

I am assuming those of us “gifted” with the metabolisms to turn extra carbs & calories into fat just by looking at them may have high estrogen levels and poor insulin sensitivity?

I for inssance, I get big easy but leaning down is a bitch.
I am wondering if usage of Arimidex & Metformin (and of course diet with androgens) will level the playing field and make fat loss much easier.
(Eaiser like all of you that I am jealous of who lean down with ease!-eating high GI carbs, just slightly reducing calories etc.)

Also Mr. Roberts, what about the fat set theory?

If and only if estrogen levels are really at the high end,
Arimidex might help somewhat (not at all spectacularly)
with fat loss for “chubby people.” For those cutting up
to contest condition, then estrogen can be a worse enemy
BUT even so, many, many pro bb’ers have cut up to ribbons
while having higher estrogen levels than Dolly Parton
(due to aromatizing steroids.)

I don’t really have good information on whether Metformin
really helps non-diabetics or is really not useful.
I could only repeat opinions of others rather than give
facts or observations.

I don’t know exactly what the fat set-point theory is:
if you mean the theory that the body has a tendency to
return to some set point of bf, I personally think that
is somewhat true but this setpoint can change with time.
In other words, if you slowly work your way down to 8%
and keep yourself for a year, nope, your body will not
be screaming with desire to return to 20% or anything
like that. Whereas if you do a crash diet, right after
the diet the body may indeed want to get back to where
it recently was before the diet. So in that sense the
theory is true I think. Personal opinion only, another
question I do not have facts on.

OK. So what is it hormonally that differs people that can get shredded with ease and those who have the tendancy to put fat on with ease.

I mean it can’t be T levels as I know people that can hit 2 grams a week and still have troubles leaning down.
And if it’s not Estrogen it must be nutrient repartioning ability and Insulin Sensitivity-How else can one manipulate those areas? (I mean if you are already on AS & dieting hard isocaloricly what else can you do if you are not leaning up?)
I forinstance have normal T3 levels and find Cytomel does basically notyhing for me-so thyroid is NOT the answer.

I mean some people stay lean no matter what they eat and others stay fat EVEN on sensible diets & drugs-what’s the missing link? What are the chubby people lacking?

Genetics

It’s really too hard to point at one hormone and attribute it to the difference between people who don’t gain much fat and the people who gain fat by the simple act of smelling pizza. It could be a combo of many things. My opinion on why there are guys who can eat all they want yet don’t gain much fat or very much muscle for that matter; would be the possibility of higher concentrations or higher affinity at binding sites for glucagon, thyroid, cortisol, and the adrenergic response to food intake, or possibly a smaller release of insulin or maybe even a slight lack of sensitivity in both muscle and fat cells. That might explain the situation where your skinny bud has high blood fats and has a heart attack at 40, despite his lean physique. This is purely hypothetical, however. I’ve always thought it would be because of a higher concentration of catabolic hormones and the adrenergic response to food, as the main reason why some guys have so much trouble gaining muscle mass, yet stay lean, despite large increases in caloric intake. Then on the flip side, you could have guys who are rather insensitive to or are slightly lacking the catabolic hormones so they put on muscle easily but have a hard time dropping fat. A high sensitivity to insulin in both muscle AND fat cells could also explain the easy increases in muscle mass, yet difficulty in dropping fat. Just having some hypothetical fun here though, as I don’t have any references supporting any of this sitting next to me at the moment. Yes, many of these, but not always, are genetically predetermined.

Following up on the increased adrenergic response, I have a few friends who complain about how “hot” they are after ingesting a larger amount of calories. These naturally lean guys are also very senstive to stimulants and the various agents that increase nor-epinephrine. They get really hot and sweaty! It’s possible in this regard, that they, because of a higher adrenergic response, can dissipate calories as heat easier than people who gain muscle and fat easily. Just a thought. It could also be because, as they say “Cy, you cheap bastard, we get hot because you never turn your air on!” :slight_smile:

Bill, most people I know using Glucophage (at 1g+ per day)
say it increases their pumps quite a bit BUT they get
a little bit fatter than they would like. In theory,
if one were to to a CKD, metformim might help with
“accidental carbs” or for those slow getting into
ketosis but I would actively dissuade people from ever
trying this as Metformin can be a little dangerous if
you don’t know what you’re doing.

It also causes diarrhea…I can personally attest to it :slight_smile:

–Brock

OK, what about the genetic freaks that stay lean AND build muscle rather easily?!

The genetic “freaks” that build muscle and stay lean may have low cortisol levels and the like while having high testosterone levels. Then, they could also have higher GH levels. They may have an extreme sensitivity in muscle tissue to insulin while not being so sensitive to insulin in adipocytes. They MAY even have a combination of anabolic and catabolic hormones or high levels of affinity at the receptor that nearly balance each other out, but end up favoring a higher ratio of anabolic hormones in favor of increased muscle tissue, but preventing fat accumulation. Remember too, that an increase in muscle mass will increase energy expenditure as well. It could be as simple as just having a high level of anabolic hormones. Really, though, it could be for a number of reasons. Some factors may not even be related to hormones. Some of it could have to do with fiber type, but certainly not all. Again, it’s too hard to point at one thing, there are just too many factors to consider.

That would make sense. Basically it comes down to what you were born with-GENETICS.
So let’s look at genetics assuming all the wrong things go wrong (instead of right like w/ the genetic freaks)insulin, resistance, androgen rceptore etc. Is it posible then somone may not be able to get lean unless they really starved?
Do you guys think everyone get 10% or lower on the BF scale?

My understanding is that people have different amounts of Brown Fat, and that contributes to thermogenis, especial that big meal overheating effect (I have this)

I doubt it has a whole lot to do with BAT tissue. Yes, it may play a small role, but it’s definately not the main reason. The diet induced thermogenesis you’re referring to is caused more so by a release of sympathomimetic hormones like epinephrine. The lean individuals may have a greater release of these hormones or could be more sensitive or have more binding sites, etc.

Yes, it’s possible that someone could have some terrible “freak” genetics in terms of bodybuilding. However, even taking that into consideration, I’d bet that through hormonal manipulation and some other tinkering, even that particular person could break the 10% barrier. Does that mean they could get down to 4 or 5? I can’t say for sure, but it would be very, very, difficult.