T Nation

Arimidex and Tamoxifen Protocol? Anybody?


A few years ago, I shut down hard after a cycle. Some kind gentlemen on this forum helped me out greatly by suggesting a PCT protocol of Tamoxifen and L-Dex. The protocol worked wonders for me, but I can’t remember what is was precisely.

I Know it was a few drops of one, and a dropper full of another, twice a week or something. Can someone help a brother out with this?


“Help me mommy, I don’t know how to read the stickies.”


I don’t see anything in the stickies pertaining to my question. In the time it took you to type out that pasive aggressive butthole answer, you could’ve just been nice and answered. :slight_smile:


You post is so vague its starting from ground zero.

Please start here: About the Pharma category


I think he was trying to help by showing/having you learn and understand how it works and best way and have a question to answer.

Though he can come across harsh @KSman knows pct and encourages understanding and proper use.

As far as your question a few drops ai, a dropper serm, probably daily, would be what you’re looking for as far as your question- but that is not an answer I nor, hopefully, anyone else would give or suggest as it’s meaningless. Doses and proper use are what’s important. Your question is very basic and broad- one that appears to show absolutely no understanding or knowledge, you’re not even asking for a generic pct strategy- read the stickies and some articles and many on here can answer specifics and generals.


Sorry if I was too vague. I sincerely appreciate any help. I’m very down right now, due to a major drop in TT and FT, and a few outside variables in my personal life. Needless to say, I’m just very anxious to start feeling better again.

I will definitely check out the links provided and direct any questions back to you guys in an effort to push for clarity if necessary.

Long story short, my normal TT levels are around 700. As of 2 weeks ago, my levels were at 360, and I can feel it. No libido, ED, no energy, etc. Very depressed. I started with a few drops of Arimidex, and a quarter dropper of Tamoxifen, based on my previous use. I will admit however, that I do not know if that’s optimal.


What are the doses of each one per ml?


Tamox: 30mg/mL

Arimidex: 1mg/mL


Alright @KSman and @TheBeat2 , just for clarity, based on what I’ve read through for the past few days, I’ll take 1 mg of Adex a week in divided doses, along with 20mg of Tamoxifen every other day. I do have two questions:

  1. Is hcg imperative to take? If so, I get that 250iu EOD is optimal.

  2. I currently pin 300mg per week of Test E. i’m gonna drop that to 100mg p/week in divided doses. My question is this: I’ve never heard of pinning test SC with SlinPins. So you’re saying that I can pin .25 mL of Test E 200 mg/ML in the quad SC with a SlinPin?


Im very confused.

Are you on cycle, or a TRT protocol? PCT?

Why do you think you need Tamoxifen and Arimidex?

Bloodwork will help sort this issue out much easier.


I’m front loading a TRT cycle. 400mg p/week of Test E. My Estradiol levels were high, TT was 390. I plan to taper down to a weekly TRT dose of 100mg, administered over 2 to 3 doses. I added the Adex and Nolva for the E levels, and to prevent gyno while front loading.


Why would you front load TRT?

In any case, you don’t need the nolva. The adex should do just fine to control E. If you run into trouble with gyno, look into letro or rolax.


Do you think gyno will be an issue running only 100mg per week?


EXACTLY, do not use 1.0ml, get 0.5ml as it then injects faster.
Many are doing this.

hCG 250iu is ample to support the testes. The objective is not to create more T with hCG as injected T is very much more cost effective for that. So optimal in terms of effect and cost. Preserves fertility and physical size which can be important for sexual self-image for some?most guys and how one is regarded by ones wife/GF. Also preserves testicular production of pregnenolone.


I just got 29g 0.5 mL, 0.5" slin pins for Test injections going forward. Will the hcg be necesssary permanently now?


As long as you are injecting T, LH/FSH–>zero and hCG is needed to preserve the testes. So this is permanent.

E2 should be managed near E2=22pg/ml and we know that this is needed for 100mg/week TRT.

With TRT doses of T, LH/FSH–>zero in a day or two. Some guys taking gear have the impression that only high doses do that. Some of the effects are lost in 10 week cycles so are not readily apparent.


@KSman Thanks for clarity! Appreciate the heck out of you buddy. And that’s good to know about the LH responding so quickly.


Trivia and more trivia. +r@nt

There was a 2005 paper that took health males and monitored LH/FSH with 200mg/week T cyp. LH/FSH shut off, as one should expect, very quickly. Then monitors intratesticular testosterone [ITT] levels by fine needle aspiration. So ouch, it was not a long study. ITT is around two orders of magnitude higher that serum T levels and ITT dropped without LH. Then hCG was doses at 125, 250 and 500iu SC EOD. 250iu roughly restored normal ITT, so that is where the TRT 250iu dosing came from.

Now based on that and understanding how anastrozole works at aromatase receptors by competing with T, you can see how anastrozole cannot work with a ~ 100:1 disadvantage inside the testes. When hCG doses are too high, or high SERM doses create very high LH, there can be a lot of T–>E2 inside the tests that can take serum E2 really high and anastrozole does not do much. Docs don’t get it. It takes an engineer. Also explains how the early studies with young men given 1-2 mg/day anastrozole averaged ~ 17pg/ml E2 when one might have expected E2–>zero. See it yet? The strong HPTA’s of these young guys were kicking out a lot of LH and testicular T–>E2 kept E2 levels up. A bit of a mystery in some regards just the same as the hypothalamus was still seeing some E2.

Most do not really think of what an AI is and add to confusion by calling things estrogen blockers. AI reduces E2 production, but does absolutely nothing about E2 once it gets created. A SERM can block some of the effects of estrogens in selected tissues. Now introduce mindless SERM doses in typical PCT approaches. LH goes way high and T–>E2 inside the testes goes crazy. Poor boys have very high E2 levels waiting to kill the HPTA as soon as SERM clears out and liver did see that E2 and SHBG is higher waiting to bind T as T+SHBG when the HPTA is attempting to start lowering FT. Meanwhile the testes and LH receptors see a huge drop in LH from high to crippled and the how are the testes expected to respond when the LH brakes go on? Rebound hell. PCT should be creating normal LH levels so end of PCT LH is not telling the testes to slow down. And the high LH may have desensitized the LH receptors.

Some other guys here need to beat this drum. I have left notes in the stickies in this forum.

There there is the macho not needing an AI unless they get ichy nips. E2 management is very important and AI is always needed. I see guys suggesting AI doses that would fail in a TRT context. If you take 200mg T/week you need twice as much anastrozole as a guy who takes 100mg/week. Not enough lab work and no science, just guys misleading each other. The guys who survive brag about their knowledge and the weak wreck their HPTA’s eventually.

On gear, E2 increases SHBG and lowers FT. However higher T depresses SHBG. So hard to know where SHBG ends up.

E2 interferes with T at T receptors and reduces anabolic effects and we know from TRT that elevated E2 can wreck mood, emotions, energy, initiative and libido. With TRT guys we try to optimize E2 to optimize on those issues and it works very well.

No one in the TRT forums ever claims to get this right without labs. But if you have been living with elevated E2, you get blind to the effects. Correcting E2 in upper 30’s to lower 20’s can really make guys feel like they have been reborn. With high T levels on TRT, if you then introduce anastrozole fat patterns that improved from T alone can progress to much less fat on belly and belt line. It just happens, no effort at diet changes, no exercise and no need to do dumb very low E2.

Guys with elevated, not high, E2 can be bitchy, intolerant and short tempered. Correct E2 and they are different people who may be impossible to get upset. Emotions get dry and one may be more analytical and less reactive. I think that Roid Rage is caused by E2, makes guys bitchy. Hate to see a guy pushing 300 pound of iron having PMS. Is Roid Rage a myth or do guys have a bad E2 days. I think that it is mostly a myth.

So I spend a huge amount of time trying to get things done right for the TRT guys, who as a group want to do things correctly. It is painful in this forum as most who come here come with seeds of destructive practices and notions. For the TRT guys the major problem is that almost all doctors are idiots about these things, with the caliber of understanding of some of the young wanna do a first cycle bros; in BB steroid pharma forums a lot of idiots just walk in. The BB guys who take thoughtful gear seriously can’t do much about the stampede of uneducated hordes. The voice of the knowledgeable is drowned out. I do not see the old guard anymore.

OK, I feel better now.


I pinned with a 29g, 0.5 ", 0.5mL insulin syringe yesterday. I was skeptical. It was the smoothest and quickest injection that I’ve ever done. I stand corrected. Thanks for the recommendation.


Random question: I have some Hcg, in dry form (not yet mixed with Bac water) from about 5 or 6 years ago. Does anyone know if it would still be safe/effective? Or is it bunk?