Are You A Liberal Or Conservative?

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
1

AGREE or DISAGREE to the following twenty issues to find out:

  1. Abortion Is A Woman’s Right To Choose

  2. Sexual Orientation Should Be Protected By Civil Rights Law

  3. Opposed To Organized Prayer In Public Schools

  4. Oppose The Death Penalty

  5. Oppose Mandatory “Three Strikes” Sentencing Laws

  6. Opposed To Enforcing Laws Against Drug Use

  7. Oppose Allowing Churches To Provide Welfare Services

  8. Link Human Rights To Trade With China

  9. Require Companies To Hire More Women/Minorities

  10. More Federal Funding For Health Coverage

  11. Oppose Privatizing Social Security

  12. Spend Resources To Stop Global Warming

  13. Oppose Making Income Tax Flatter And Lower

  14. Oppoded to Immigration Helping Our Economy

  15. Opposed To Supporting And Expanding Free Trade

  16. Continue Foreign Aid to Russia, Israel, Others

  17. Oppose Absolute Right To Gun Ownership

  18. Parents Choose Schools Via Vouchers

  19. Opposed To More Spending On Armed Forces Personnel

  20. Reduce Spending on Missile Defense (“Star Wars”)

…
SCORECARD:

20 out of 20:
If you have agreed to all the above, you are the hardest of the Hard-Core Liberals. You have LEFT reality!

16 to 19 out of 20:
You are a Hard-Core Liberal

12 to 15 out of 20:
You are a Moderate-Liberal

9 to 11 out of 20:
You are a Moderate

5 to 8 out of 20:
You are a Moderate-Conservative

1 to 4 out of 20:
You are a Hard-Core Conservative

0 out of 20:
If you have disagreed to all the above, you are the hardest of the Hard-Core Conservatives. You have fallen RIGHT off of the earth!

merlin

2

This list is lame. Many of these stupid statements make an assumption that the answer is in fact binary. Anyone who calls them self a liberal or a conservative probably has a reason why–though they may be incorrect about the facts of those philosophies.

3

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
This list is lame. Many of these stupid statements make an assumption that the answer is in fact binary. Anyone who calls them self a liberal or a conservative probably has a reason why–though they may be incorrect about the facts of those philosophies.[/quote]

Well you’ve proved my point about labels.

Which one of the 20 statements were “stupid” besides your own about assumption? Was it the first one, “Abortion is a women’s right to choose” …was that a stupid statement?

There were no binary options given. The answers were agree or disagree. This is my point. The labels given to those who choose to agree or disagree are just inaccurate. This is what the media portrays. This is not my list, but since you consider it lame, can you provide a list that involves political stances on issues that’s less lame?

My guess is you didn’t like your label, most people don’t. Thanks for proving my point in one post.

merlin

4

I have to say the questions have a definite liberal bias.

It is a lame test.

5

[quote]rainjack wrote:
I have to say the questions have a definite liberal bias.

It is a lame test. [/quote]

Correct! The media is controlled by what 90% of those that label themselves “liberals” or have that label given to them based on some inaccurate labels. Even the first question should be changed for what it really is …but the lables given to murderers soften the blow a little with “abortion” as a nice comforting term.

In a more realistic world …the question would be "Do you agree that all women should be allowed to kill their babies if they want to? It’s called “Pro-Choice” …nice ring to that one I must admit. I prefer “License For Murder Law”.

merlin

6

[quote]merlin wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
This list is lame. Many of these stupid statements make an assumption that the answer is in fact binary. Anyone who calls them self a liberal or a conservative probably has a reason why–though they may be incorrect about the facts of those philosophies.

Well you’ve proved my point about labels.

Which one of the 20 statements were “stupid” besides your own about assumption? Was it the first one, “Abortion is a women’s right to choose” …was that a stupid statement?

There were no binary options given. The answers were agree or disagree. This is my point. The labels given to those who choose to agree or disagree are just inaccurate. This is what the media portrays. This is not my list, but since you consider it lame, can you provide a list that involves political stances on issues that’s less lame?

My guess is you didn’t like your label, most people don’t. Thanks for proving my point in one post.

merlin[/quote]

The problem with something like your list is that most people prioritize their issues. So maybe I agree with 15 out of 20 liberal statements, but what really matters most to me is preventing abortion and bringing prayer back into schools. In which case I may, as Lifticus suggests, reasonably call myself a conservative.

Or maybe it’s all about women’s issues for me and I choose to identify as liberal, despite being for lowered taxes, privatization, and immigration.

Also, “binary” means two. So your “agree or disagree” are, in fact, binary. But for many people, neither “agree” nor “disagree” are appropriate answers for all of the questions. There are shades of gray.

It’s not about liking or disliking one’s label. It’s about rejecting inaccurate and foolish methods of identification.

7

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
merlin wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
This list is lame. Many of these stupid statements make an assumption that the answer is in fact binary. Anyone who calls them self a liberal or a conservative probably has a reason why–though they may be incorrect about the facts of those philosophies.

Well you’ve proved my point about labels.

Which one of the 20 statements were “stupid” besides your own about assumption? Was it the first one, “Abortion is a women’s right to choose” …was that a stupid statement?

There were no binary options given. The answers were agree or disagree. This is my point. The labels given to those who choose to agree or disagree are just inaccurate. This is what the media portrays. This is not my list, but since you consider it lame, can you provide a list that involves political stances on issues that’s less lame?

My guess is you didn’t like your label, most people don’t. Thanks for proving my point in one post.

merlin

The problem with something like your list is that most people prioritize their issues. So maybe I agree with 15 out of 20 liberal statements, but what really matters most to me is preventing abortion and bringing prayer back into schools. In which case I may, as Lifticus suggests, reasonably call myself a conservative.

Or maybe it’s all about women’s issues for me and I choose to identify as liberal, despite being for lowered taxes, privatization, and immigration.

Also, “binary” means two. So your “agree or disagree” are, in fact, binary. But for many people, neither “agree” nor “disagree” are appropriate answers for all of the questions. There are shades of gray.

It’s not about liking or disliking one’s label. It’s about rejecting inaccurate and foolish methods of identification. [/quote]

Binary is a term used to seperate two things as “all” or “nothing”. In math …Binary refers to 0 & 1 as Binary digits…my post had neither of those two options. I had two options and neither represented an all or nothing approach. Just because I choose Pepsi over Coke doesn’t mean I don’t like Coke …it could mean I just like Pepsi better. Mine had one or the other as a choice.

You don’t have to AGREE with all of an option to choose it, you just pick one. This is my point. You are not “liberal” or “conservative” for choosing to agree or disagree with any option. But this is how the media wants to you to think, and apparantly they’re doing a damn fine job of it. Those labels are absolute horseshit!

merlin

8

[quote]merlin wrote:
Binary is a term used to seperate two things as “all” or “nothing”. In math …Binary refers to 0 & 1 as Binary digits…my post had neither of those two options. I had two options and neither represented an all or nothing approach. Just because I choose Pepsi over Coke doesn’t mean I don’t like Coke …it could mean I just like Pepsi better. Mine had one or the other as a choice.

You don’t have to AGREE with all of an option to choose it, you just pick one. This is my point. You are not “liberal” or “conservative” for choosing to agree or disagree with any option. But this is how the media wants to you to think, and apparantly they’re doing a damn fine job of it. Those labels are absolute horseshit!

merlin[/quote]

So you’re lampooning the list? Okay. I guess we agree, then. Because to “agree OR disagree” absolutely IS to separate things into all or nothing. If that is the focus of your issue with the list as presented, then you’re right. It is foolish.

Even a Likert scale is generally insufficient to measure attitudes about these sorts of things, in my opinion.

9

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
merlin wrote:
Binary is a term used to seperate two things as “all” or “nothing”. In math …Binary refers to 0 & 1 as Binary digits…my post had neither of those two options. I had two options and neither represented an all or nothing approach. Just because I choose Pepsi over Coke doesn’t mean I don’t like Coke …it could mean I just like Pepsi better. Mine had one or the other as a choice.

You don’t have to AGREE with all of an option to choose it, you just pick one. This is my point. You are not “liberal” or “conservative” for choosing to agree or disagree with any option. But this is how the media wants to you to think, and apparantly they’re doing a damn fine job of it. Those labels are absolute horseshit!

merlin

So you’re lampooning the list? Okay. I guess we agree, then. Because to “agree OR disagree” absolutely IS to separate things into all or nothing. If that is the focus of your issue with the list as presented, then you’re right. It is foolish.

Even a Likert scale is generally insufficient to measure attitudes about these sorts of things, in my opinion.[/quote]

Yes …I had some alterior motives for posting this. As far as “binary” goes, sure you can use that adjective for anything and make it true. I just don’t think it applys well here. It would apply if you had to agree with all the statements or none of them. There were thousands of combinations of agree & disagree pertaining to that list. Therefore, this would create thousands more labels beyond “liberal” or “conservative” …not including the thousands more labels based on the strength of agreement or disagreement on each issue.

The idea of lumping millions of people into generally two lables is the most pathetic thing I think the media has managed to accomplish, there are a few others but this is as ridiculous as “black” & “white”. As far as politics goes, the media has brainwashed people into thinking they are either a conservative or a liberal in order to keep the two ruling elite parties in power. You can call yourself whatever you want, either way …you’ll end up voting for some millionaire that has fooled you into thinking they’ll represent you. Millionaires represent millionaires!

merlin

10

[quote]merlin wrote:
There were no binary options given. The answers were agree or disagree.
[/quote]
agree or diasgee == binary

There are two options – flip the switch up or down; set the current to on or off; answer true or false; choose 1 or 0…BINARY options.

No, I cannot. Any questions I pick would also be biased…for example:

True of False

  1. I am a statist?

  2. Government works?

  3. Individual liberty is overrated?

  4. JM Keynes is the savior of the “American economy”?

If you answer all false then there is hope for you. If you answer all true then pick a side and vote with the party because you are one of the chosen robots.

I didn’t take the test because I don’t answer binary questions about myself. The point you’ve been trying to make has well been established for the majority of thinking people. Believe it or not there are more than two options.

11

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
merlin wrote:
There were no binary options given. The answers were agree or disagree.

agree or diasgee == binary

There are two options – flip the switch up or down; set the current to on or off; answer true or false; choose 1 or 0…BINARY options.

can you provide a list that involves political stances on issues that’s less lame?

No, I cannot. Any questions I pick would also be biased…for example:

True of False

  1. I am a statist?

  2. Government works?

  3. Individual liberty is overrated?

  4. JM Keynes is the savior of the “American economy”?

If you answer all falsae then there is hope for you. If you answer all true then pick a side and vote with the party because you are one of the chosen robots.

My guess is you didn’t like your label, most people don’t. Thanks for proving my point in one post.

I didn’t take the test because I don’t answer binary questions about myself. The point you’ve been trying to make has well been established for the majority of thinking people. Believe it or not there are more than two options.[/quote]

True, but how many “thinking people” vote? Thinking people don’t vote. Not on a mass scale or in a majority. Even if the counted votes were accurate, the thinking man is outnumbered by conformists by far. America has some damn good advertisers, some of the best. We can bullshit bullshitters. How else would you explain the morons that get elected to run this country?

My rants are strictly for those who can’t think for themselves …they’re called “Americans” …the typical American could be convinced that they won’t get fat because the candy says 0 grams of fat on it. Does the thinking person really have to explain to them that the 400 grams of sugar in that candy will make them fat …YES! he does. That’s sure as hell why I’m here.

merlin

12

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
merlin wrote:
There were no binary options given. The answers were agree or disagree.

agree or diasgee == binary

There are two options – flip the switch up or down; set the current to on or off; answer true or false; choose 1 or 0…BINARY options.

can you provide a list that involves political stances on issues that’s less lame?

No, I cannot. Any questions I pick would also be biased…for example:

True of False

  1. I am a statist?

  2. Government works?

  3. Individual liberty is overrated?

  4. JM Keynes is the savior of the “American economy”?

If you answer all false then there is hope for you. If you answer all true then pick a side and vote with the party because you are one of the chosen robots.

My guess is you didn’t like your label, most people don’t. Thanks for proving my point in one post.

I didn’t take the test because I don’t answer binary questions about myself. The point you’ve been trying to make has well been established for the majority of thinking people. Believe it or not there are more than two options.[/quote]

A true or false test must contain statements that are either true, or false. A question can be neither.

13

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
merlin wrote:
There were no binary options given. The answers were agree or disagree.

agree or diasgee == binary

There are two options – flip the switch up or down; set the current to on or off; answer true or false; choose 1 or 0…BINARY options.

[/quote]

current to on or off - completely incorrect analogy. Why? Because you don’t start in the neutral position. This analogy implies that the current is either on or off at the start. It is not.

true or false - completely incorrect analogy. This implies that there is a false answer. There are no false answers.

1 or 0 - completely incorrect analogy. Binary suggests a value (1) vs. no value (0). No one suggested that an answer had no value. Each answer is an identifier, and as thus, has a value. There is no answer that presumes a null set!

Your analogies show a glaring misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the topic.

The list of questions show a proclivity towards non liberal thinkers. As such, it is biased. I’m guessing that this bias is what you have issue with. Fair enough.

14

[quote]kroby wrote:
current to on or off - completely incorrect analogy. Why? Because you don’t start in the neutral position. This analogy implies that the current is either on or off at the start. It is not.

true or false - completely incorrect analogy. This implies that there is a false answer. There are no false answers.

1 or 0 - completely incorrect analogy. Binary suggests a value (1) vs. no value (0). No one suggested that an answer had no value. Each answer is an identifier, and as thus, has a value. There is no answer that presumes a null set!

Your analogies show a glaring misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the topic.

The list of questions show a proclivity towards non liberal thinkers. As such, it is biased. I’m guessing that this bias is what you have issue with. Fair enough.[/quote]

Uhhhh…if one only has two options to choose from it is a binary state. Everything else you have written is wrong. There is no such thing as a neutral state in regard to opinion…the mere fact that one would call themselves “neutral” is in fact an opinion and therefore not neutral.

False answers don’t exist? Yes…the questions I asked are all false…FOR ME!!

You clearly don’t understand what a binary representations is. 0 or 1 is yes or no, true or false, A or B…anything that would represent one pick over the other.

1 and 0 do not have to mean value or no value–in electronic circuits 0 doesn’t have to mean no voltage; it could represent a negative or low voltage–the point is that it is binary and their are only 2 options as these questions clearly imply. Please, let’s wax semantic some more…I like word games.

15

[quote]rainjack wrote:
A true or false test must contain statements that are either true, or false. A question can be neither. [/quote]

Well, true or false tests are extremely difficult to make objective without using pure logic representation only–meaning we really cannot extract subjective inference from true or false tests. The questions I posed were purposely biased–obviously, some people are going to have answers with shades of gray. For me the answers were all false.

16

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
A true or false test must contain statements that are either true, or false. A question can be neither.

Well, true or false tests are extremely difficult to make objective without using pure logic representation only–meaning we really cannot extract subjective inference from true or false tests. The questions I posed were purposely biased–obviously, some people are going to have answers with shades of gray. For me the answers were all false.[/quote]

I am just saying that a true of false test cannot end with a question mark. You can’t answer a question with true or false.

17

[quote]rainjack wrote:
I am just saying that a true of false test cannot end with a question mark. You can’t answer a question with true or false. [/quote]

Ahhhh, Damn! You got me. I should not have used question marks. I was originally going to make the example test yes or no so the question marks would have been appropriate in that case–I just forgot (or neglected) to delete them.

18

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
A true or false test must contain statements that are either true, or false. A question can be neither.

Well, true or false tests are extremely difficult to make objective without using pure logic representation only–meaning we really cannot extract subjective inference from true or false tests. The questions I posed were purposely biased–obviously, some people are going to have answers with shades of gray. For me the answers were all false.[/quote]

The shades of gray in this like any test would test actual ideology. A questionnaire of yes or no answers can only provide a very broad and cursory overview of someone’s beliefs. Maybe someone supports SOME level of aid to SOME of the countries you named but not all.

SOME increased weapons funding but not as much as others would support. Does NOT support federal civil rights protection of gay marriage but DOES think it should be a state issue and is against a federal ban. Others could have many varying degrees of liberalsim and conservatism to all of these ssues.

19

A sliding scale of Strongly Agree to Strongly Disagree for every question would make this test a little more representative of a person’s true ideology and beliefs. But a test where you ‘circle’ answers still cannot truly get at it.

20

One person might unconditionally support a woman’s right to abortion. Another might only support it in rape or incest cases. One might support it as a last alternative. Some might not agree with late term abortions.

Some might support abortion when the amnio shows something is wrong with the child, of varying degrees of seriousness. Others might not agree with abortion even if the child is going to be born compromised with some congenital disease. Some might not agree with abortion in any situation. The list goes on and on and is the same with every question.