Are You A Beginner II

[quote]odium wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
I would like to mention that most of the strength coaches on this sit and elsewhere recommend complete novices stay in the 8-15 rep range. But any of the programs in this thread, with their excellent exercise choices, should work with modifications made to rep range. After some solid training like this (at least a good few weeks) the switch can be made to heavier loading.

I hv been wondering about this too.
Coz I dont want to give wrong advice to the beginners in the gym I work out at.

Given examples like TBT or OVT, how do we modify the set/rep scheme to suit a beginner?

What about those who had workout experience but had a long lay off? Are they considered beginners?

Should they be prescribed with 8-15 reps or can they jump straight into the programs?

Thanks!

Odium
[/quote]

Beginners should start with 8-15 reps and wait some time before jumping into any of these programs. I’m training two beginners right now. My sister who is 26. And my girlfriend’s youngest brother who is 14. They’re both doing very well. I have them both doing full-body circuit workouts.

But both CT and CW told me that their programs are for the intermediate lifter at the least. And that they should stay in a higher rep range (8+) reps for some time (a solid year). I’m not sure how long a layoff would necessitate returning to higher rep work. I think that several weeks of this would suffice for most people, though, before returning to heavier work.

[quote]odium wrote:

Given examples like TBT or OVT, how do we modify the set/rep scheme to suit a beginner?

Thanks!

Odium
[/quote]

I think the best approach to full-body workouts is circuit training. Using all the money lifts (ie deadlift, squat, bench, row, pull-ups) from the getgo. Working up to 3 circuits. A short rest between each circuit. Exercise can be alternated each workout.

Maybe deadlifts and bench one workout for example and squats and dips in another workout. I’m not sure how to modify OVT. I would think that 3 sets of compound movement (ie bench) followed immediately by isolation movement (ie dumbell fly) in the 8-12 rep range with some rest between sets would be fine. Continue like this for back on Day 1. And do the same protocol for the other days.

Just noticed someone pointing this thread out for beginners…

Smart from the Start
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=674008

Also, as people are mentioning, starting out lighter and with “higher” reps would be wise too.

Looks like there will have to be a version III at some point!

[quote]vroom wrote:
Just noticed someone pointing this thread out for beginners…

Smart from the Start
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=674008

Also, as people are mentioning, starting out lighter and with “higher” reps would be wise too.

Looks like there will have to be a version III at some point![/quote]

Or you could just keep editing your first post, no?

I probably should have waited longer to post this since it doesn’t need bumping right now, but at least I’ll kick it up a couple of notches on the front page…

well firstly hi guys! this is my first post here. I just want to say that the search function does not work. Other than that this is a cool site. finally hearing some truth.
Is there any sections which are for specific exercises? i really need some deadlift tips, thanks alot.

Awesome job, vroom.

Here’s some more for volume III:

Chad Waterbuy Programs

The Set/Rep Bible
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=651322

Anti-Bodybuilding Hypertrophy I http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=244anti2

Anti-Bodybuilding Hypertrophy II http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=307hyper2

Strength Focused Mesocycle http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=485341

SOB Training
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=561180

Triple Total Training
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=476508

Hybrid Hypertrophy
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=580380

Waterbury Method
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=534922

Total Body Training
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=508031

Quattro Dynamo
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459216

Singles Club
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459290

Big Boy Basics
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459533

Outlaw Strength & Conditioning
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459262

The Art Of Waterbury
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=693794

I’ve been a reader since day 1, actually since TC was at MM2K and no beginner’s instructions have come close to this. It’s concise, clear and contains everything anyone at any level needs to progress.

T-Mag should add Vroom to their payroll, or at least send him a goody bag.

I refer at least a person a week to T-Nation, now I know where to send them. Thanks Vroom

Hey all,
In my search for “macronutrient profile” I stumbled onto T-Nation and have been searching for information that would help me out. It’s been so long since I’ve been in a gym that I would consider myself a beginner - I’m going to attack the nutrition and fitness thing all over again, starting with diet and then hitting the weights - so when I came across Vroom’s very informative and link-laden thread I let go a huge sigh of relief.

Being a newbie AND a “Skinny Bastard” (see Berardi) I’m sure that the information that Vroom et al have posted here is going to get me back on track and probably off on a better regimen than I have ever been on. Thanks to everyone!

I do have some questions, and I hope someone can offer some answers:

One - I’ve used different calculators and read different articles and find that I’m supposed to be taking in anywhere from 2600 to 4000 calories each day. How in the world do I get that many calories in a day?? I have been managing about 3000 per day but I can’t fathom having to come up with an extra 1000 without also increasing my fat and/or carb intake.

Two - when working out a macronutrient profile and calculating P/F/C percentages, do I calculate the grams of each that I take in against my caloric intake, or is it a ratio of each one with respect to the total of all three (eg if I get 120g of P in a day and my total P/F/C is 480g, but I’ve eaten 3600 calroies that day, is that 25% P for the day or 3%?)

Thanks to everyone. I look forward to picking some brains down the road, but for now I have to read up all of the links in Vrooms post!

Slim,

If you are a self-defined skinny bastard, don’t be afraid to up your fat and carbohydrate consumption. Generally, the consensus around hear is that if you eat appropriately (mainly good food choices) then just up your intake to whatever level you find works for your goals.

Also, if I am not mistaken, most percentage based macronutrient recommendations are worded as “percentage of total calories”. So, convert the food grams into calories first, then calculate the percentage of the total calories that each represents.

Whatever you do, stick with it… sometimes progress is slow and sometimes it is fast, don’t give up!!!

A time to train

There are those that pay lip service to the idea of working out - dawdling around the gym, raising the odd press and curling the odd dumbbell (but never remembering or recording their workouts and so never properly measuring their progress) - and there are those who get the bit between their teeth, pick a plan, work their soon-to-be-walnut-like asses off in accordance with said plan and, often as not, appear to get mighty results. I was never one of those guys, only I just didn’t realise it until recently.

I’d convinced myself otherwise, to be sure. On occasion you see, I’d highlighted a month or two’s worth of training plans in my Men’s Health Home Workout Bible, attacking these programs half-heartedly using my hastily purchased home bench, barbell and cheapo dumbells, and then - you guessed it - eating some trifle. And cake. I like cake.

I mean I’m not too much of a lardy assed couch potato with ideas above his station. I do also indulge in, besides eclairs and Kit Kats, a bit of climbing, mountain biking, and all manner of occasional fun sweaty stuff, but I never really took lifting seriously. And because I didn’t have a real, simple to follow program, I never really pushed it. Until now that is.

You see, I currently reside in the Middle East (Dubai to be precise) where it is - to put it mildly - crazy hot at this time of year (46C today, hardly outdoor cardio weather), and where most apartment/housing complexes include their own gyms (my current dive being pretty well equipped weights-wise). What I’ve discovered then, being a born-again newbie y’see, is that lifting weights until you wobble and narrowly hold down the puke, is a great stress reliever. And I always thought it was running or swimming until you couldn?t see for sweat. Doh.

As boxing isn’t really encouraged here (neither the official kind nor ‘off the cuff’ beatings), the only way, it seems, to unwind after half an hour on the roads (think: whopping great 4x4s driven by folks with too much money and time, but waaaaay too few manners) is to head gymwards and grunt it out.

While I’ve been a T-Nation reader for some time - probably a year or so - but I’d only really logged on for general motivation really. Anything to get me off my butt. What I got off on (and still do) is the attitude towards training, the ‘all or nothing’ ethos, and the pervasive subtext of ‘Who gives a **** what anyone else might think? Are they righteous? Are they educated? No, screw ?em’, which of course T-Nation has with bells on.

The specific thanks for getting me to finally start proceedings with a swagger and a grunt (and a plan!), goes to Vroom’s newbie-friendly post yesterday (erm, this one in fact). His links to starter pages within this very site, including training plans and more, was just the conversation starter my imaginary friends in my head needed (bear with me!). The little lifting angel on my shoulder whispered: “Now’s yer chance Matt, stop reading, start doing. Here’s a list of beginner lifting programs, right in front of you, one copy and paste away. The only question is this: have you got the balls?” The devil on my other shoulder meanwhile, quipped just the right line: “You’s a pussy and you ain’t got the minerals my son.” Well, balls to him; if there’s anything I can’t stand is someone (particularly invisible dwarf-like entities) telling me I can’t deal with something. ‘I?m on the MOFO,’ I thought.

Fast forward but a few hours later and I find myself aching like Jenna Jameson’s A-hole after a particularly energetic session with Buttman, but feeling like step one has been taken on the road to realville.

My chosen plan: Chad Waterbury’s ‘3-day per week, full-body workout plan’. Holy moly on fire, that’s one serious way to spend 45 minutes!

I went for Chad’s 8-week intro plan for its simplicity, and its brevity, though I must admit to thinking beforehand: “Three sets of just five reps? Just six exercises three times a week? We’ll see?”. And I did see, immediately. I very nearly saw the bench from the underside. And I very nearly saw my lunch spray all over the mirror I was squatting by. But I made sure I kept good form, I think I breathed when I was supposed to (out to lift, in when lowering right?), and, well, so far, so heavy.

This is my first time here so , I jus wanted some feedback…
I am 5’5 197 an about 18% body fat.
I have been out the gym for almost two years now an just started back this week. I eat about 4,5 times a day, an get close to 200grams of protein in me. I eat alot of tuna an chicken. An have a about 3 protein shakes daily.My goal is to stay around the 195 mark an get stronger an cut up eventually.
Here is my workout…

Mon/Thurs
Bench Press 12x 10x 10x 8x 6x
Dumbell Flyes 12x 10x 10x
Bumbells Curls 12x 10 10x
Concentration Curls 12x 10x x10
Cable Crossovers x12 x10 x10
Close Grip Bench x12 x10 x10
Tri Pulldowns x12 x10 x10
Tri Pullovers x12 x10 x10
Ab crunches X40 x40 x40

Tues/Fri
BentOverRow x12 x10 x10 x8 x6
LatPullDowns x12 x10 x10
MiltaryPress x12 x10 x10
SideLats x12 x10 x10
Shrugs x12 x10 x10 x8
Squats x12 x10 x10 x8
Leg Press x12 x10 x10 x8
Leg Ext x12 x10 x10 x8
Leg Curl x12 x10 x10 x8
Ab Crunches x40 x45 x40

Feedback,Suggestions appreciated.

Thanks for posting this information Vroom.
It looks like I definitely found the right site!

lilj I would suggest using one of Chad Waterbury’s programs. Your program isn’t too bad but the programs the authors on the site put out are really refined and have worked for a lot of people. Along with getting 1-1.5 grams of protein per lb bodyweight try to follow John Berardi’s 7 habits and you’ll lower your body fat pretty easily.

Yeah, use one of CW’s programs. Anti-Bodybuilding Hypertrophy I (ABBHI) is his most popular as far as I can see. Total Body Training (TBT) is also very good.

Holy crap, nice job!
Im going to be busy for a while…
thanks!

Hey!

What are John Berardi’s dietary recommendations for bodybuilders (how many grams of protein, carbs and fat does he recommend per kg(or lbs) of body weight per day?)

Many thanks,

David

vroom, thanks for all your hard work on this.

Bump.

So many people ask the same old questions about creatine, that this would be a good one for the beginner thread too…

The Creatine Controversy
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=768093

Two other common supplements addressed:

Consumer Alert: The NO2/Arginine Scam
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=556124
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=556939

Glutamine: Destroying the Dogma
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=461188
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459884

this is a really great thread. thanks for taking the time to put all the links to this stuff up in one place!