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Are Vegetables Necessary?

So, after a little over a month of tracking and journaling I have pinpointed that all my digestive issues were caused by my vegetable intake.

Although I feel great I am concerned I may be missing out on necessary micros. If so would a product like superfood be a good addition?

Anyone else not really eat vegetables?

The majority of Americans.

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What kind of vegetables were you eating, and are you able to find local organic produce? With pesticides and all the other crap that can be put onto veggies before they reach the store, quality is paramount. There are definitely people who are anti-vegetable at this point, but I believe them to be a necessary part of a proper diet, and whole food > supplements every time.

Most of them but, the most frequent were cruciferous ( dropped first), mushrooms (caused stomach cramping), asparagus, green beans, variety of peppers.

I started cross referencing with the FODMAP lists but, I think it must be something else in the vegetables because the high fodmap foods in the protein and bread lists cause no issues.

I would say vegetables are necessary for a healthy diet. But I know people have complex lifestyles when it comes to eating. So, I would say it’s up to them if they decide to consume vegetables. Here is an educational video of why I think vegetables are necessary for a healthy diet, and no I’m not advertising:

I’d probably just see how I go. Blood test at some point to see if there are deficiencies then just grab a greens supplement. I think biotest sells one. Then bloods to see if it fixes it

Then the other thing is fibre which I’d cover with steel cut oats and a bit of bran.

Also, I used to get quite nauseous from green vegetables. Having small amounts, really well cooked, increased quantity over time and I do okay with them now.

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Actually 99.9% of pesticides come from the plants themselves, what is known as phytoalexins. When you factor in additional toxins like lectins (think IBS and other auto immune disease) together with the base premise that carbohydrates are a non essential macro then it should be quite clear that vegetables are neither necessary nor sufficient for optimal health.

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There are a few studies showing significantly lower cancer rates in vegetarians - do you have an explanation for this? Also, there’s a pretty high prevalence of vegetarianism in ultra-endurance sports, and those guys are pretty healthy. I’m not disagreeing with you necessarily, I know you advocate for a carnivore diet, I’m just curious about those issues.

Vegans have lower rates of some cancers and higher rates of others. They also have astronomical rates of mental illness. The best studies that we have don’t really show life expectancy differences between a vegan diet and omnivorous diet if you account for healthy lifestyle factors. And no, ultra type athletes are some of the least healthy people on the planet. they have incredibly high rates of things like heart attacks for the record. This isn’t necessarily a knock on veganism in this context or those athletes. when you push any exercise to the extreme it isn’t healthy.

The question being are plants necessary? No. If you don’t eat them I would recommend you get a diverse intake of animal products though. Lots of organs and collagen. If you want to include carbs you have dairy products if those are suitable and things like honey. I have eaten very little in the way of plants in about a year And my performance is great and my health markers are as good as they have ever been.

Human ancestors, especially if you’re of European decent, have gone almost entirely on a meat diet for millions of years until only several thousand years ago. We retain some of our plant eating ability as survival food but our digestive tract and biology are built to eat meat as a primary source of nutrition.

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I wouldn’t say so - we have incisors and chewing molars, which means we’ve been omnivores for a pretty long period of time, plus we have sucrases to break down fruit. Our closest evolutionary relatives (chimps) are omnivores, and all evidence suggests we evolved TOWARDS eating meat, not away from it.

Yeah - I don’t think this is true. Certainly we were eating meat, but it wasn’t a carnivore diet that was adapted to vegetables.

My only point in all of this is - are vegetables NECESSARY for survival? No, but neither is meat.

Errrrm, no. Humans — or human ancestors — have had carbs in the form of tubers as a diet staple for tens of thousands of years. Along with whatever else they could forage.

EDIT: Here’s a link, in case anyone just thinks I’m talking out my ass.

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Those are starchy vegetables which I have no issue with. I can handle potatoes, wheat etc. I guess my issue is with non starch/leafy vegetables.

I did not intend this to be a carbs or no carbs debate. I handle high carbs just fine my weekend refeeds are 800-1000 grams of carbs a day. It was these refeeds that solidified the fact that the greens/non starch vegetables were my issue.

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I don’t have any hard facts, but anecdotally a lot of people I know have issues with cruciferous veggies, so you’re not alone.

If they’re bugging you, I say cut ‘em out. They won’t have nutrients you can’t get elsewhere.

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Eat what makes you feel good

Can you handle leafy greens?

Don’t mean to derail an interesting thread, but this caught my interest. Do you have anything backing up this claim, or is this just your own observations?

No, I am not vegan. I’m a high carb flexitarian with a love for meat AND fruits/vegetables (only TRYING to avoid excess fat in my diet - though love bacon). I have also encountered digestive issues, bloated gut when eating too much vegetarian food. I have experienced similar symtoms during prolonged use of creatine for obvious reasons.

There are some studies but, the results are not conclusive and they are not “astronomical”.

It is not known if a vegan/vegetarian diet can cause mental issues or if people with mental issues are drawn to extreme/restrictive diets.

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No, while most greens/vegetables caused bloating, distention, and gas, leafy greens would cause “evacuation” soon after. I assumed it was just the plant fiber and lack of real digestion needed to break it down.

It may be a case of the poison is in the dose but, as of right now 125g of raw asparagus or green beans before cooking is enough to cause issues.

I personally would suggest the latter, since a person with any illness or therapy resistant symtom would search for their own solution (especially since most doctors know less about diets).

Just as a side note, I remember seeing this about a study concerning vegans, AND about ultra-endurance people - that they have high instances of depression, that is. IMO, it’s more that people with depression are drawn to that diet and sport, than the idea that those cause depression, but I’ll just say I’ve seen the statistic before somewhere.

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