T Nation

Are Power Snatch/Clean Even Necessary?


#1

After doing a "light" session which included power snatches and power cleans today I asked myself the question, "what's the point of this?" Do you guys think the power versions are even necessary or even possibly detrimental.

I've normally used them as a "light day" movement, but why not just perform the full lifts lighter. I think that the pull and higher catch can disrupt the motor patterns of the full lifts. What do you guys think?


#2

They don't. As long as you are pulling the weight the same way as you are pulling when you are doing the original lifts, you will not develop any bad habits in the lifts. In fact, it'll actually ENHANCE your lifts by improving your speed. The power variations are better for speed-developemnt than the classic lifts, which is why coaches who uses them for athletes of other sports prefer to have them over the classic lifts.

Also, the power variations teaches you the proper way to explode properly (once you learn their hang variations that is).


#3

I would advise against doing the power version to start with.

GET A GOOD GRASP OF THE FULL LIFTS FIRST.

Then later you can do the power versions. It will mess with motor patterns if the full lifts aren't ingrained. I don't teach the full lifts until the lifter can full snatch body weight with PROFICIENT TECHNIQUE. Some very strong guys can muscle about a bodyweight SN but that wont' help hit the bigger numbers at all.

Light day? Might as well just not train mate and save yourself for the next session IMO. Just rest up instead.

Coaches who use them for other sports are just lazy to teach them properly or can't. What is more powerful PC 130kg or full cleaning 150+? More weight mate...the 150 Clean won't be slow thats for sure.

Koing


#4

Thanks Koing, I tend to agree with you. I do feel they are completely different movements. I feel you have to pull a power version differently than a full lift. The entire mind set is different. I think I "overpull" the power version, wait on the catch or movement under the bar, and definitely move my feet slower. I think chronic use of the power version would hinder the "retreating" of the hips reflex that makes or breaks a full lift. I'm ditching them from my program and will either rest, perform lighter full lifts, or train from the hang/paused below my knees, when I need a rest or deload.


#5

The patterns are the same but it won't be so natural to you so far so this is why people shouldn't do them at the start. The focus should always be proficiency in the full lifts first and foremost. Then once you have that you can do the power version as it won't mess with your motor patterns.

Just rest on your days off. This is MUCH better then going in for a light day. JUST REST. You will be able to go in to your next sessions FRESH AND WANTING TO SMASH BIG WEIGHTS.

Koing


#6

Koing, I read that power output (weight x velocity) in Olympic lifts is the biggest at about 80% of your max. I think this is the reason a lot of coaches/athletes who are interested on lower body power development don't do 100%. Not to mention that you'll miss more when doing 100%.


#7

Koing, I have a good feeling you and I are NOT going to get along...


#8

I've had the conversation about power snatch/clean with my coach and his feeling is that the timing is different for these from the full movements so we rarely and I mean rarely do any power movements and when we do it's either in a complex or very light.


#9

you seem to be having that problem with quite a few people...


#10

When your saying stuff that is inaccurate.

Most power production is in the Snatch 2nd pull due to the speed of it.

They don't do 100% because they they can barely teach their athletes to do the lifts properly let alone at any speed pace to approach a maximal weight...

Koing


#11

I'm teling you guys, this fella is a dead ringer for TYPE2B haha. A self-proclaimed novice who thinks they know everything. We should thank our lucky stars that type of poster is fairly uncommon here in o-lifting.


#12

I was about to say, somebody who can only front squat 70kg but insists on dishing out advice/attempting to enforce their opinions on lifting online, is more than faintly ridiculous.


#13

I know mate.

Koing


#14

There shouldnt be a difference in the pull between power and full, but there usually is since most people dont know how to power snatch properly or why to even use them, so they end up compensating for the sake of weight. I think they are helpful when used properly by a coach, but I dont teach them to beginners.


#15

I've recently discovered I can power clean my jerk max so I've been doing power cleans while trying to fix my jerks instead of full cleans as a short cut/out of laziness and so I have more energy to do more jerks. I don't know if this is wise, but the full clean does take it out of me a lot more than the power version at the same weight.

However, my jerk still sucks.


#16

Gqartguy, why/when would you have someone use power snatches instead of full snatches?


#17

ooh. can i guess? because if i'm wrong i'd love to know why...

to help practice finishing the second pull properly?
and / or to help practice the transition between the first and second pull?

i still do power versions sometimes. for those reasons. but maybe i shouldn't...

(i still do hang power snatches sometimes for the second pull, too, and hang snatches to practice the extend and drop transition).


#18

Don't do the power versions. It will only make Jerking MUCH harder when you come out of a harder Clean. Do Rack Jerks instead in your training to help fix your Jerks.

When a lifter has a good grasp of the full Snatch with consistent technique.
Why? To help the lifter pull strong in the 2nd pull mid way. I open up well but sometimes midway through the 2nd pull I am not really pulling on the bar. I'm getting under it. And also to keep the bar close to the lifter.

It's NEVER instead of full Snatches. It's always in addition.

Power Snatch should only be used for lifters who know how to Snatch properly. The biggest thing between a beginner and a good lifter and a elite lifter is speed under the bar. This should be the most fundamental thing a lifter should learn first.

Koing


#19

If someone has problems with reaction time between extension and dropping (i.e. overpulling) they can be useful, but many people still just overpull the PS which defeats the purpose of it hence the need for a good eye. If you have an injury where you cant squat or receive a bar in a squat, then they are good alternatives. They also teach people to drive hard off the floor because the bar is caught much higher, whereas in a full lift this can be compensated by extending really hard and back to bring the bar where it needs to be.


#20

Koing I suspected there was a better way :slightly_smiling: I don't have a rack where I can drop the weights yet though. I'm working on that.

I never power snatch on purpose, but I get enough of them in by accident :stuck_out_tongue: