T Nation

Are My Goals Realistic?

The past two years of training have mainly been focused on packing on as much mass as possible, and I’ve been fairly successful. I’ve gone from 150 to 185 in 2 years. Now that I’m at a good size for my position in rugby, I’m going to focus on strength gains, which have been inconsistent during my past two years. Instead of worrying about programs or any of that I’m simply keeping a log and whether I’m doing a westside, 5/3/1 or 5x5 template as long as I’m consistently beating PRs I know I’m doing something right.

With the size gain, there has definitely been a bit of a fat gain. I’m not fat by any means, and my endurance and speed has stayed the same, but I’ve definitely lost my abs. Now that I don’t have to worry about packing on the mass as fast as humanly possible, my plan is to put on small amounts of muscle consistently over time with a very marginal fat gain. I’m going to consult with a nutritionist when I go up to college and map out a good diet plan. If I gain maybe 10-15 (around 1 pound a month) pounds over the next year and half with a very small fat gain, will I look leaner? Is this doable?

Just curious, what position do you play and how tall are you?

[quote]dk6666 wrote:
The past two years of training have mainly been focused on packing on as much mass as possible, and I’ve been fairly successful. I’ve gone from 150 to 185 in 2 years. Now that I’m at a good size for my position in rugby, I’m going to focus on strength gains, which have been inconsistent during my past two years. Instead of worrying about programs or any of that I’m simply keeping a log and whether I’m doing a westside, 5/3/1 or 5x5 template as long as I’m consistently beating PRs I know I’m doing something right.

With the size gain, there has definitely been a bit of a fat gain. I’m not fat by any means, and my endurance and speed has stayed the same, but I’ve definitely lost my abs. Now that I don’t have to worry about packing on the mass as fast as humanly possible, my plan is to put on small amounts of muscle consistently over time with a very marginal fat gain. I’m going to consult with a nutritionist when I go up to college and map out a good diet plan. If I gain maybe 10-15 (around 1 pound a month) pounds over the next year and half with a very small fat gain, will I look leaner? Is this doable?[/quote]

What position are you?

Stick with a program, don’t constantly switch them. 5/3/1 is probably your best bet since it’s so versatile (you can go in season to off season, 2 days a week to 4, etc easily).

You don’t need to talk to a nutritionist. You know what foods are healthy and which are not. Just eat a lot of meat, eggs, milk, vegetables, fruit, and complex carbs. Don’t eat a lot of shit. It’s pretty simple.

I’m a flanker, hooker or inside center but I’m going in as a flanker. I was on 5/3/1 when I did the Boring But Big template but I was given a mad cow 5x5 for the summer. If there aren’t team workouts in season I’m going to back on the 5/3/1 though.

As for the nutritionist it’s free so I might as well get a diet plan laid out by a professional.

[quote]dk6666 wrote:
As for the nutritionist it’s free so I might as well get a diet plan laid out by a professional.[/quote]

You usually get what you pay for, especially when it comes to professionals. I’d make sure the nutritionist has a track record with athletes and isn’t just a generic nutritionist.

Decimator: I’m 5’10

jjackkrash: The nutritionist works specifically with athletes, but just out of curiousity how bad could a generic nutritionist be? I already have a basically knowledge of what I need to eat, 800 to 1000 clean calories over maintenance level, would a generic nutritionist give me different advice or something?

Paying a nutritionist sounds totally retarded. There HAS TO be something else you could spend your money on.

Yeah its provided for free by my school.

I guess my real question is that the common knowledge is that unless your a very new lifter you cant lose fat and gain muscle at the same time, but if over time you gain 10 pounds of muscle with a 2 pound fat gain, won’t you look considerably leaner?

[quote]dk6666 wrote:
The past two years of training have mainly been focused on packing on as much mass as possible, and I’ve been fairly successful. I’ve gone from 150 to 185 in 2 years. Now that I’m at a good size for my position in rugby, I’m going to focus on strength gains, which have been inconsistent during my past two years. Instead of worrying about programs or any of that I’m simply keeping a log and whether I’m doing a westside, 5/3/1 or 5x5 template as long as I’m consistently beating PRs I know I’m doing something right.

With the size gain, there has definitely been a bit of a fat gain. I’m not fat by any means, and my endurance and speed has stayed the same, but I’ve definitely lost my abs. Now that I don’t have to worry about packing on the mass as fast as humanly possible, my plan is to put on small amounts of muscle consistently over time with a very marginal fat gain. I’m going to consult with a nutritionist when I go up to college and map out a good diet plan. If I gain maybe 10-15 (around 1 pound a month) pounds over the next year and half with a very small fat gain, will I look leaner? Is this doable?[/quote]

Rippetoe likes to say that you should be eating so much that you routinely get kicked out of all-you-can eat restaurants 2x a week. Rapid progress in strength is dependent on having a large caloric excess, but it is ultimately up to you how you want to balance your fat gains with respect to your strength increases.

If you gain 10 pounds of muscle with a 2 pound fat gain, you will definitely begin to look leaner. It is hard to gain muscle mass without some fat because it is hard to be that precise with your diet, and often you can’t gain muscle mass without extra nutrients and calories. Some calories will go to fat but a small amount of extra fat is not bad (especially for an athlete). That fat will contribute to energy needs when you don’t have enough glycogen and keep you from tapping into your muscle protein stores for energy.

Gaining a pound per month of lean muscle mass is doable for most people as long as they are not limited by their genetics, and eat enough food. I’d say that’s a very reasonable goal for you. If you want to gain muscle with a minimal amount of fat you should focus on consuming lots of meats (or protein) and vegetables (for nutrients). Your carbs should be from whole grains whenever possible. You will need a good amount of carbs if you are training hard and practicing, but carbs also contribute to some fat gains if you do not use them for energy. Try not to eat refined carbohydrates such as white bread. Watch your weight gains, and make sure you do not look to be gaining to much fat, that’s the main way to tell if your diet is working. Modify your diet a little bit at a time until you are consistently gaining muscle mass and little fat. Basically keep fat down by reducing carbs when necessary, but don’t forget about needing them for training. Also, I’d stick with 5/3/1 as your main strength program.

What are your lifts right now? This is a very different conversation if you’re squatting 200 x 5 or squatting 400 x5.

[quote]skiracer wrote:
What are your lifts right now? This is a very different conversation if you’re squatting 200 x 5 or squatting 400 x5.[/quote]

This is very true.

Also, OP where are you playing? Do you know what kind of style the team plays with? (are they big and foward dominated, fast and back dominated, etc)

It would do you well to see if they have a team roster with heights and weights of current players so you can compare yourself to guys that are starting at your position. I play flanker as well, and I’m around 225 pounds. Although, a lot of teams will have smaller flankers around your size.

What you have to realize in all of this, is that the ultimate goal is to be a better rugby player. Remember that. So talk to your coaches, check out teammates as well as opponents that play the same position, and then make a decision about gaining or not gaining weight.

If you’re pretty fast, you will probably be fine at the size you are now. Just eat sensibly with a lot of protein, get stronger, and become better.

[quote]skiracer wrote:
What are your lifts right now? This is a very different conversation if you’re squatting 200 x 5 or squatting 400 x5.[/quote]

I’m squatting mid 300’s and my bench is embarrassingly low, probably low 200’s. I haven’t maxed in a while and I fucked myself by starting a 5x5 too late in the off season and lifting low weights for a month before doing something to my groin that prevented me from squatting heavy.

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
Also, OP where are you playing? Do you know what kind of style the team plays with? (are they big and foward dominated, fast and back dominated, etc)

It would do you well to see if they have a team roster with heights and weights of current players so you can compare yourself to guys that are starting at your position. I play flanker as well, and I’m around 225 pounds. Although, a lot of teams will have smaller flankers around your size.[/quote]

I’d like to remain somewhat anonymous over the internet but I’m playing for a D1 school in the NERFU. I visited almost every school in that conference, and I noticed that even at the schools that were big and pack dominated, the flankers were either tall and lanky or around my height/build. My school is back dominated and I’m going in as a flanker at the recommendation of the forwards captain (who weighs the same as me but is much taller).

[quote]Chris87 What you have to realize in all of this, is that the ultimate goal is to be a better rugby player. Remember that. So talk to your coaches, check out teammates as well as opponents that play the same position, and then make a decision about gaining or not gaining weight.

If you’re pretty fast, you will probably be fine at the size you are now. Just eat sensibly with a lot of protein, get stronger, and become better.[/quote]

Yeah in all honestly my OP was more geared towards the bb guys as a side thing. My ultimate goal is to play at the national level, and I know that I don’t have the height to play flanker. I’ll eventually have to make the switch to center, so I’m focusing on speed. In high school I was never incredibly fast and I was always good at flanker (even at 145 lbs soaking wet)just because I was the small kid that banged. As far as my speed now it depends on how you measure it. I always finished in the top 3 when we ran miles for football, and I’m always the first guy to the breakdown, but I doubt my 40 time would be anything to write home about. At the end of the end of the day though, I think being leaner and faster will serve me better down the line than just putting another 20 pounds on in 6 months.

[quote]dk6666 wrote:

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
Also, OP where are you playing? Do you know what kind of style the team plays with? (are they big and foward dominated, fast and back dominated, etc)

It would do you well to see if they have a team roster with heights and weights of current players so you can compare yourself to guys that are starting at your position. I play flanker as well, and I’m around 225 pounds. Although, a lot of teams will have smaller flankers around your size.[/quote]

I’d like to remain somewhat anonymous over the internet but I’m playing for a D1 school in the NERFU. I visited almost every school in that conference, and I noticed that even at the schools that were big and pack dominated, the flankers were either tall and lanky or around my height/build. My school is back dominated and I’m going in as a flanker at the recommendation of the forwards captain (who weighs the same as me but is much taller).[/quote]

Wouldn’t it be ironic if it turns out you’re on the same team?

[quote]dk6666 wrote:

[quote]skiracer wrote:
What are your lifts right now? This is a very different conversation if you’re squatting 200 x 5 or squatting 400 x5.[/quote]

I’m squatting mid 300’s and my bench is embarrassingly low, probably low 200’s. I haven’t maxed in a while and I fucked myself by starting a 5x5 too late in the off season and lifting low weights for a month before doing something to my groin that prevented me from squatting heavy.

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
Also, OP where are you playing? Do you know what kind of style the team plays with? (are they big and foward dominated, fast and back dominated, etc)

It would do you well to see if they have a team roster with heights and weights of current players so you can compare yourself to guys that are starting at your position. I play flanker as well, and I’m around 225 pounds. Although, a lot of teams will have smaller flankers around your size.[/quote]

I’d like to remain somewhat anonymous over the internet but I’m playing for a D1 school in the NERFU. I visited almost every school in that conference, and I noticed that even at the schools that were big and pack dominated, the flankers were either tall and lanky or around my height/build. My school is back dominated and I’m going in as a flanker at the recommendation of the forwards captain (who weighs the same as me but is much taller).

[quote]Chris87 What you have to realize in all of this, is that the ultimate goal is to be a better rugby player. Remember that. So talk to your coaches, check out teammates as well as opponents that play the same position, and then make a decision about gaining or not gaining weight.

If you’re pretty fast, you will probably be fine at the size you are now. Just eat sensibly with a lot of protein, get stronger, and become better.[/quote]

Yeah in all honestly my OP was more geared towards the bb guys as a side thing. My ultimate goal is to play at the national level, and I know that I don’t have the height to play flanker. I’ll eventually have to make the switch to center, so I’m focusing on speed. In high school I was never incredibly fast and I was always good at flanker (even at 145 lbs soaking wet)just because I was the small kid that banged. As far as my speed now it depends on how you measure it. I always finished in the top 3 when we ran miles for football, and I’m always the first guy to the breakdown, but I doubt my 40 time would be anything to write home about. At the end of the end of the day though, I think being leaner and faster will serve me better down the line than just putting another 20 pounds on in 6 months. [/quote]

I understand, I was just curious as to what kind of level. I’m sure you’re going to be fine at your size. You’ve got the right idea about what to do as far as your weight. Good luck

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]dk6666 wrote:

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
Also, OP where are you playing? Do you know what kind of style the team plays with? (are they big and foward dominated, fast and back dominated, etc)

It would do you well to see if they have a team roster with heights and weights of current players so you can compare yourself to guys that are starting at your position. I play flanker as well, and I’m around 225 pounds. Although, a lot of teams will have smaller flankers around your size.[/quote]

I’d like to remain somewhat anonymous over the internet but I’m playing for a D1 school in the NERFU. I visited almost every school in that conference, and I noticed that even at the schools that were big and pack dominated, the flankers were either tall and lanky or around my height/build. My school is back dominated and I’m going in as a flanker at the recommendation of the forwards captain (who weighs the same as me but is much taller).[/quote]

Wouldn’t it be ironic if it turns out you’re on the same team?[/quote]

That would be some twilight zone stuff, but I play in another part of the country