Are My Blood Levels Stable?

Hi,

It’s been more than 7 weeks that i’ve been on my new protocol (25mg EOD, just testosterone enanthate, nothing else) and due to the fact that in the past i had 2 entirely different blood results on the same protocol i did 2 blood tests, in the same lab, at the same hour. These 2 blood results were taken 4 days apart but BOTH were taken on the injection day. Right before injecting actually, so at my trough.

First result:

Total Testosterone: 965 ng/dL |Range: 250-840 ng/dL|
Estradiol: 39 pg/ml |Range: 8-43 pg/ml|

Second result:

Total Testosterone: 1100 ng/dL |Range: 250-840 ng/dL|
Estradiol: 31 pg/ml |Range: 8-43 pg/ml|

I don’t know, i mean is this normal? The results are a little bit different from each other and it’s been even more than 7 weeks (56 days exactly), so i should be 100% stable. What do you guys think?

Thanks.

P.S And yeah, we don’t have sensitive test in my country for estradiol.

You do not need the “sensitive test”. Variations are not unusual. Mine has varied from 880-1100, usually runs 900-920. I even had one come back at 680. Could be a bolus that has not absorbed as quickly.

I would think, though I do not know, that lower, more frequent injectors would see less of this.

1 Like

That’s perfectly stable. I don’t know how frequently you are injecting, but if twice weekly on can expect a difference between peak and trough of about 200 ng/dL.

Also consider that immonoassay based T tests have an intrassay preciSion (Same sample measured multiple times on the same plate) of 3% and an interassay precision (different sample measured) of 7 to 10%.

1 Like

Not sure what you were expecting, you can’t expect literally exactly the same all the time. It just isn’t how it works. Your body is always using it and then you’re injecting every other day so there are constant ups and downs. Obviously, the more often you inject the more you minimize those, but it still isn’t like there aren’t changes day to day.

1 Like

Ah ok, eod. Expect a T variation of about 100, so perfectly fine and in alignment with your results. Levels are ‚stable‘ after 4-6 half lifes of the molecule, ie after 3 to 4 weeks.

1 Like

These different results can be explained by fluctuating SHBG levels, as SHBG increase so to does TT, SHBG decreases TT decreases along with it. You basically have the same amount of testosterone in your system, the difference is the balance between TT and FT.

You need to be testing TT and SHBG so you can use the Tru-T calculator to get your FT score.

1 Like

Wow that’s a wild theory. Any evidence for this?

If only 1-2% is bound to SHBG and TT measures the total T anyway then that’s hard to believe.

TT is bound to TT+SHBG, so testosterone bound to SHBG is not bioavailable. You normally have access to 2-3 percent of biologically active testosterone not bound to SHBG, some weakly bound to albumin.

If a guy has an SHBG of 8 nmol/L, than he injects testosterone, his FT will climb quickly and TT will be lower in relation to FT. If he started taking a drug known to increase SHBG, his TT would go up along with SHBG.

Sorry it should read 1 to 2% is not bound to SHBG in my post before.

You are justifying your theory with another theory.

T is steadily released from the im or subq space into the serum where it binds to mainly SHBG and less tightly to albumin. In this scenario the SHBG level has nothing to do with the TT level.
Completely besides this the sample preparation process in the TT assay disrupts the association between T, SHBG and albumin in both, the IA and the MS assay (acetate puffer pH 5.5) - search for FDA CDC total testosterone assay

I worked for 4 years in a medical lab after 12 years of education in biochemistry and molecular medicine.

Its variability in dosing, release from the im or subq space (depending on where exactly the T ‘landed’ and assay variability.

The T bound to the ester is not part of the levels when testing, when T is released from the ester it then becomes bound to SHBG and what’s not bound is free and some to albumin.

An example, a guy on T-Nation came in with a TT of 1995 ng/dL, his SHBG was 246 and his FT was the lowest I had ever seen (<2 ng/dL), his TT was insanely high because of his extremely high SHBG.

As a matter of fact we see cases like this all the time, high SHBG, very high TT and very low FT and E2. If you take these guys SHBG and lowered it 50%, you would see TT decrease and FT increase.

Agree or disagree?

Dude. T is released from the ester and then some of it is bound to SHBG, depending on what is available. There is nothing there to indicate causation. He has extremely high SHBG, and happens to also have extremely high TT. You can’t really say one is causative of the other.

I do agree that SHBG has a protective role in T metabolism in the sense that it protects T from clearance. I do also agree that SHBG has a diurnal variability, the degradation has been described as being biphasic. Were i am not sure is, how much SHBG fluctuats over days as the second phase of SHBG degradation has been described as slow (half lifes of several days). And if in the setting of exogeneous T the diurnal SHBG rythm is still active.
But, yes I agree that SHBG fluctuation might also contribute to the observed variability. In that sense good thinking and good discussion!

1 Like

interesting read on this subject

Also an interesting read on the topicof SHBG and T levels achievec on TRT

It concludes that not the SHBG level per se but rather polymorphism in the SHBG sequence account for the response variability.

Of course this is yet another topic

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/andr.12428

Thanks, guys. So am I stable? Like i said, i did both of those blood tests on my injection day (right before injecting actually, so at my through), furthermore my blood was even drawn at the exact same hour (+/- 15 minutes) so i expected results to be almost identical.

Where i am coming from.

SHBG levels are known to decrease by up to 30 to 50% over the course of TRT.

If SHBG levels - by whatever mechanism - have a direct association with TT why is TT level on TRT (relatively) stable over months and years dispite the change in SHBG.

@iamnotshepard Apologizes for hijacking your thread

@systemlord I dont mean to spam you. Wife and kids are asleep and thats the only time of the day i can think about this interesting stuff. Appreciate the discussion and exchange!

Hopefully you don’t take this wrong, as I am not trying to be a dick, but its trough not through.

1 Like

Not at all, man. Thanks for pointing it out.

1 Like

No problem, man. I just want to make sure you didn’t mistake those results as one of them being “peak” and the other being “trough”. I did both blood tests on my injection day, so they are both “trough”. My blood was even drawn at the exact same hour.

That’s normal variation, man. You’re on a reasonable dose at a reasonable frequency.

It’s rather unlikely you’ll have any sides. Live your life now.

1 Like