T Nation

Are Men on TRT Considered “Natural?”

I’m 53 and started TRT to get myself to around a 900-1100 level. I’ve also just stated your Best Program for Natural Lifters. Can I handle more volume because of the increased test?

It’s not natural to be 53 with T readings of 1,100. That’s supra-physiologic.

In regards to your real question, I’ll leave that to CT.

what you meant ?

What’s your TRT dose?

CT’s plan has less volume and is designed to keep cortisol low for natural lifters. Can I increase volume since I’m on TRT?

i was talking to believer423. 900-1100 is consider high test or its normale range for most people ?

0.9 ml per week.

That’s 180 mg per week, not a TRT dose for most. Hence the supraphysiological level of 1100.

TRT isn’t natural considering it is pharmaceutical use but it’s intended to provide the T value of a man who is natural.

However, natural in the bodybuilding world is not definitive because some federations allow TRT so long as T values are normal and there is medical documentation and others don’t. I competed in one that allows it.

Banned in sports.

Brickhead is correct. A “true” replacement dose would be 7-10mg/day (10mg being at the limit of normal) or 50-100mg/week.

I actually wrote an article on that topic.


What if 7-10mg a day had you at or below 300 total? Still a normal replacement dose?

The ester converts to less, as he wrote. 70% for cypionate. More like 15mg/day (100ish/week) for a good range.

Probably, you would measure closer to 500 with this, which should not bother you.

I know I’m an outlier, but I was around 500 (peak) at 200mg/wk.

In a world filled with people getting completely different numbers for the same doses I don’t see how we can say “anything over X mg a day is a cycle”

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The wide variation in number from various doses is likely more due to when you are testing your level relative to when you injected and how fast you metabolize the drug (some will cleave off the ester faster than others).

But except for outliers who might breakdown a lot of the test, 200mg is more than TRT.

That’s also why in my article I mention Dr. Crysler’s protocol as the most accurate TRT. Essentially you inject 5-10mg of testosterone propionate sub-cutaneus per day. This ensures the most stable testosterone level as well as the most predictable levels (and the less side-effects)

Longer esters injected less often are much less predictable and will have a lot more individual variation.


Does anyone use pellets?

I wonder if something happened to someone metabolizing 200/wk into 500.

I do not see a problem in the dose truly natural for one’s age. Men live healthier lives in a high-normal range later in life. Their natural levels probably do not reflect this.

There is likely not a lick of a difference in quality of life or muscle mass between 500 to 1000.

Not motivation to exercise more?

Where would you say the range is?

1000 difference, like 500 to 1500?

I don’t know at what supraphysiological value does one experience abnormal, significant gain in muscle mass and cognitive changes.

I’ve been on TRT for almost half my life, since 2001. I’ve tested at 500 to 900-plus. Never did I experience anything different and the same goes for my friends who are on TRT. But we go to a great doc who doesn’t play the TRT-for-bionic-man game.

Differences in the mid-to-high normal range don’t do anything. Only once did I notice an abnormally high value (1500) while on Androgel in the mid 00’s and I knew something was off and my dose was needfully lowered. I saw my doc quarterly and I knew something was off and scheduled an appointment sooner. I had acne on my back and my temperament was off. I clearly am not a good candidate for roids for bodybuilding and I’ll never do so.

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Where is your cut off? 900 is ok, what about 1,000? 1100?

What if someone’s total testosterone is 1500… BUT there free T is middle of the road. What’s your take on that? Super man cycle or just regular ole TRT?

@bigmax i meant his T level relative to his age is not normal.