Did anyone try the Atlantis pullover station? Looks good.
[quote]MODOK wrote:
There is absolutely NO FUCKING WAY you can physically stretch sternal cartilage. Not with your lungs, not with an air compressor, not by tying it to the bumper of a truck. This theory is ridiculous, and if the people who started it back in the day had any knowledge of human anatomy and histology at all they’d be ashamed to even say it.
Any increase in girth from pullovers is from lat growth, with an outside possibility of serratus growth if you have your shoulders extended during the performance of the movement.
[/quote]
FUCK!!!
What’s next? You going tell me that $100 pump I ordered isn’t going to add 3 inches to my pecker?
[quote]Antares wrote:
[quote]Rocky2 wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]silverhydra wrote:
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
People often forget about the chest expanding qualities of the pullover - the rib cage gets “bigger” (small muscles in-between ribs get bigger) which pushes the pecs out/up more.
When I used to do them, I loved the cable version (modified my pulley machine lol). But now, I separate my back & chest on different days, and as I remember, that exercise did both. Wouldn’t mind doing it again sometime though…[/quote]
Do they actually work the intercostals? And if so, would an overhead squat or something with a similar arm position above the head do it to the same extent?[/quote]
Yeah,… uh,… I never bought into that ‘expanding the rib cage’ nonsense. Sure, you get a really good stretch, but let’s face it, a lot of Arnold amazing suggestions were pretty off base, and he was just genetically well off, started juicing at an extremely early age, and had very little regard for his own safety -lol.
S[/quote]
Yea I remember Arnold suggesting pullovers for expanding the rib cage in his encyclopedia of bodybuilding. But I’m not sure I buy into that either.
I vote a study be done :p[/quote]
I vote that people leave the Pandora’s-Box-of-Rib-cage-Expansion the fuck alone.[/quote]
Hint taken lol
Although I wasn’t talking about cartilage/bone, but oh well…
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]MODOK wrote:
There is absolutely NO FUCKING WAY you can physically stretch sternal cartilage. Not with your lungs, not with an air compressor, not by tying it to the bumper of a truck. This theory is ridiculous, and if the people who started it back in the day had any knowledge of human anatomy and histology at all they’d be ashamed to even say it.
Any increase in girth from pullovers is from lat growth, with an outside possibility of serratus growth if you have your shoulders extended during the performance of the movement.
[/quote]
FUCK!!!
What’s next? You going tell me that $100 pump I ordered isn’t going to add 3 inches to my pecker?[/quote]
You only paid $100 for it? Where did you get it???
[quote]jo3 wrote:
[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
Not a huge fan of the typical DB or Barbell pullover for the reasons mentioned. A HIGH Decline variation is better, but what about cables?
Kneeling high cable straight arm pulldown or even a cable pullover on a bench or stability ball.
I’ve gotten a great isolation in my lats from the kneeling pulldown. You have to kneel and lean forward to really get that stretch then as you bring the bar down and into your waist you lean back into a straight up and down position. Of course this works for me because I’m 5’5" with short arms. Taller lifters may have a difficult time getting any sort of stretch unless your pulley is 8 feet tall…
Cross Lat Cable Pull-outs are also pretty good as well. You can do this on any sort of dual pulley. Arms cross above your head. Arm straight, bring cables out into an iron cross position. [/quote]
Do you use a wide, medium (shoulder-width), or narrow grip?[/quote]
Normal. Whatever grip gives you the best stretch and pull without hurting the shoulder.
Alan
The ackward position does not allow you to handle as much weight, and most of the weight feels like its being moved by the shoulders.
They arent part of my program.
I will note that by focusing on certain aspects of the ROM, you can get some contraction in your lower chest, or even your back (I prefer rope straight arm pressdowns, or a nautilus machine though). Some folks let the DB stretch them so far out that the seem to THINK that they’re actually making everything bigger (of course we still have folks arguing that you can do certain exercises to fill in your bicep gap as well -lol).
S
I tried doing pullovers when I first started lifting, just because I saw other people doing them. After about a week or two of doing them, they started making my shoulders pop. This may just be me though, as I have hurt my shoulders before in the past. They just don’t work for me.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I will note that by focusing on certain aspects of the ROM, you can get some contraction in your lower chest, or even your back…
[/quote]
Here in lies the ‘secret’ of the Pullover and its many ( many ) variations.
Focusing on muscles that are worked during certain stages of the total POSSIBLE ROM of a movements variation(s) is really a basic thing.
People seem to forget this when it comes to Pullovers ( more so than any other movements ), and then blame the Pullover for not ‘working’, when they have not really experimented, with the many variations ( BB/DB/Mach/Pulley) and again thinking this will ‘work’ without focusing on certain muscles.
Nothing ‘works’ in BB’ing if you are not going to FOCUS.
Most people seem to pull with the arms when doing any and all Pullovers, they don’t know how to pull with their lats, or use their pecs.
People whom go on about how Decline ( bent-arm ) BB Pullover is for triceps, and not lats, are the same people that think BB Row is a killer bicep movement.
Trainees seem to lose all their sense of nuance, when it comes to Pullovers.
That and they have the ‘100kg bench press but where’s ma chest?’ disease with the PO family, just as bad or worse…
‘50kg x 4, BB PO, so where’s ma muscles?’
Certain variations of the pullover pop my shoulder too. Typically if the grip is too close…so DB Pullovers are more or less out of the question.
Just think about the movement. Perform the movement the right way. This is really one of those exercises in which form REALLY dictates load. You could load up a crap ton of weight and use your shoulders and tris to do most of the movement. That is why I think the Pullover Machine is such a popular variation as it targest the muscle much better since you’re “locked and loaded”.
Decline EZ Bar Pullovers keep the elbow unlocked and constant.
Single Arm Straight Lat Pulldown: I like this due to the increased range of motion as you can bring your arm past your torso. Kneeling/leaning of course.
Alan
[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
Certain variations of the pullover pop my shoulder too. Typically if the grip is too close…so DB Pullovers are more or less out of the question.
Just think about the movement. Perform the movement the right way. This is really one of those exercises in which form REALLY dictates load. You could load up a crap ton of weight and use your shoulders and tris to do most of the movement. That is why I think the Pullover Machine is such a popular variation as it targest the muscle much better since you’re “locked and loaded”.
Decline EZ Bar Pullovers keep the elbow unlocked and constant.
Single Arm Straight Lat Pulldown: I like this due to the increased range of motion as you can bring your arm past your torso. Kneeling/leaning of course.
Alan
[/quote]
You tried, different shit from the PO family and and it hurt so you quit it.
Though I am a PO advocate, I admit that it can hurt some people.
But, hell that’s really everything…
You found what will not hurt YOU…
Let us look at it like the Behind-The-Neck-Press;
Some can do those full ROM ( some can even BN Push Press ) others can’t BNP unless they stop at the ear-level and or take a super wide grip, and to others still life is to short to spend weeks trying to find the ‘right’ BNP (or PO ) variation for THEM.
I guess I am odd enough to be able to handle heavy loads, in many PO variations.
I got an awesome idea:
Try them and see if they work for you.
They don’t compare to a Nautilus machine pullover (the best lat exercise ever invented) or even a pullup/pulldown IMO, but they definitely have at least some value. I started out with them exclusively last year when I was just starting to train again and made pretty impressive progress to start.
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
[quote]silverhydra wrote:
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
People often forget about the chest expanding qualities of the pullover - the rib cage gets “bigger” (small muscles in-between ribs get bigger) which pushes the pecs out/up more.
When I used to do them, I loved the cable version (modified my pulley machine lol). But now, I separate my back & chest on different days, and as I remember, that exercise did both. Wouldn’t mind doing it again sometime though…[/quote]
Do they actually work the intercostals? And if so, would an overhead squat or something with a similar arm position above the head do it to the same extent?[/quote]
I’m no expert, and I understand there is much controversy over this (expanding the rib cage). But many do report the benefits. I’ve heard of some men (not just teens/newbies) adding 3+ inches to their chest measurements in only one month (when doing the flat lying dumbbell pullover every day)…which in my opinion can’t just be attributed to pec/back growth.
I guess it goes to say that if you can increase your lung capacity, then you should also see an increase in the size of the cage.
Whatever the case, I think I’ll start doing them up again and do a log or something…there’s nothing to lose.
Not sure about the overhead squat exercise doing the same, but supposedly breathing squats (20+ reps) are good for it.[/quote]
Ellington Darden says that teenagers can increase the size of thier rib cages by a few inches as a result of the muscular pull on the rib cartilage, but that there’s a limited window of opportunity to stimulate skeletal growth of that kind which closes once you reach maturity. Adults can’t get the same result.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I got an awesome idea:
Try them and see if they work for you. [/quote]
why are you trying to be logical?
Why not just rely on rumor and third party internet training advice/folklore?
Thanks for all the feedback everyone.
It’s all about the serratus anterior. Put your hand on the back of your head and pull down, and that’s the arc of pull your humerus is in for a DB (maybe others too) pullover. Then feel in that little space between your pec and lat. OMG there’s a muscle there and its flexing.
Looking at the anatomy diagram on EXRX, its pretty plain to see that if you make that muscle bigger, your chest measurement will go up and your pectorals will pop out since a good portion of the serratus is underneath them.
It makes me wonder if you could get the same effect doing scap pushups.
I think there was a T-Nation article not too long ago which discussed the whole ribcage expansion thing in some detail. If I remember correctly, they speculated that it might be possible if you’re very young like under 23 or something.
[quote]marti1rj wrote:
There seem to be far to much clashing views on this exercise. So i’m wondering what opinions any experienced bodybuilders might have here???
[/quote]
Asking this question without any specifics is like asking countingbeans, “are W-2’s effective?” and expecting a comprehensive answer.
Effective for what?
Yes they’re effective!