T Nation

Are College Kids Stupid?

Not to rant, but I need to rant to intelligent people. I am a college student who just started training two years ago. I was a fat 220 lbs, got down to 150, now I’ve gained some mass and am at about 175. My problem is that in school I see all these huge guys, who I know drink, eat crappy food, but are still huge. Every morning in the gym while I am doing deadlifts and squats I see huge guys doing every isolated muscle movement ever created by man. And walking by the gym later in the day there is a line to use the one preacher bench. Am I missing some gene or something?? Eating clean and not drinking doesn’t seem to be working. Well, it is, but yeah, sorry to rant.

yes they are.

I hate to break it to you but there’s this thing called genetics. It’ll catch up to them, don’t worry.

[quote]T-Smith wrote:
Not to rant, but I need to rant to intelligent people. I am a college student who just started training two years ago. I was a fat 220 lbs, got down to 150, now I’ve gained some mass and am at about 175. My problem is that in school I see all these huge guys, who I know drink, eat crappy food, but are still huge. Every morning in the gym while I am doing deadlifts and squats I see huge guys doing every isolated muscle movement ever created by man. And walking by the gym later in the day there is a line to use the one preacher bench. Am I missing some gene or something?? Eating clean and not drinking doesn’t seem to be working. Well, it is, but yeah, sorry to rant. [/quote]

Who’s the stupid one?

In my honest opinion, many guys on this forum have taken that whole “eating clean” logic way too far. I gained size quick in college. I was hitting 190lbs by my second year in the gym and I ate like crap. The difference is, I ate alot of crap to meet a caloric requirement (large amounts of milk, eggs, and bananas along with everything else) and kept lifting. Much of this is based on genetics regardless of what people want to hear. I think my arms were hitting 18" before graduation and I never deadlifted or even had a decent program until around my junior year. I then got more interested, researched what I could and tried to learn more about bodybuilding.

The bottom line is, you have to weigh your priorities. If eating “clean” isn’t giving the calories needed, as was the case in my situation because of my metabolism, then you eat in a way that does produce those results. I am only eating cleaner now because I feel I have most of the size I was after so I feel it is time to tighten up a little (plus I hate eating foods that border on pure shit like french fries). Most of the guys on the football team when I was in college could put away 3-4 plates of food in one sitting. Eating like that is how I gained most of my size those first few years. Some people have faster metabolisms than others which REQUIRE more food to grow. That is a simple reality. It certaintly isn’t something you have the right to call other people “stupid” for.

Big muscles take a lot of calories and heavy weight. I never had a problem with doing isolation movements and ONLY see them as something to avoid if the person is a rank beginner who has NO basic size on them at all.

You can rant all you want to, but if you expect to, like so many others, get HUGE while also being overly restrictive with your food intake, it just isn’t going to happen. I never had to deal with being a Former Fat Boy so I don’t have the mental block that some of you seem to have. I eat to gain and make strength improvements.

don’t relegate it to college people… I think you can witness this at any commercial gym

If you eat clean all the time and you’re genetics aren’t the best, you’ll have a hard time gaining muscle mass. Don’t get me wrong, you don’t want to be eating pizza every single night, but once a week is fine. Hell, right now, I’m eating ENRICHED (not whole wheat) pasta every other day (at least a pound of it) and thats towards the night even. Am I gaining a little fat? Yes. Are my lifts going up? Yes. Once summer rolls around, do the Velocity Diet for a month, and you’ll get lean and keep your strength. There is nothing wrong with gaining 20-30 pounds in the “off-season” (non beach months). But then again, it all depends on your goals. If you want to be lean year round, go for it. But, I wouldn’t expect your lifts to go up as quick as they would if you put a little fat on ya.

What about supplements?

Are you supplementing heavy? If not, you should.

[quote]Sybersnott wrote:
What about supplements?

Are you supplementing heavy? If not, you should.

[/quote]

No, he shouldn’t. Why would anyone need to “supplement heavy”? Outside of using a protein shake or meal replacement if you can’t handle things in the kitchen, what other supplements do you think are NEEDED to see muscle growth? Do you think everyone making gains is simply using a supplement stronger than yours?

When I was in school, all the kids that were like you described were on steroids. Most of them didn’t have the first clue how to eat or train. They did chest and biceps like 4days a week, but they looked good compared to other kids. I am sure that some of them probably did some serious damage, especially with all the drinking etc. I bumped into two of the bigger, leaner kids from 3 years ago, and they both looked like shit. The funny thing is, those of us who learn how to eat and train properly win in the long run. Stay with it, and the results will come. Also, eating clean doesn’t necessarily mean not consuming enough calories. I certainly wouldn’t start stuffing down the twinkies bc ppl say you are too small…that won’t do anything for you. Read Massive Eating, it will make all the difference in the world.

[quote]a_train08 wrote:
Also, eating clean doesn’t necessarily mean not consuming enough calories. I certainly wouldn’t start stuffing down the twinkies bc ppl say you are too small…that won’t do anything for you.[/quote]

To my knowledge, I don’t think anyone told him to buy Twinkies. Also, are you claiming that the only reason someone could possibly grow without only eating chicken breasts or avoiding alcohol is if they are on something? My second roommate in college was a genetic freak. This guy was about 6’1" and weighed a lean 235lbs. He ate more food than anyone I know and slept all of the time (when not screwing) and his body fat percentage pretty much stayed the same (I would estimate it at under 8%). He didn’t gain much more size, but hell, it isn’t like he needed it. He wasn’t on anything. His parents were giants too. Maybe some of your accusations are misguided?

Also, I will agree that some of the guys who had some decent size on them in college blew up and got fat as hell after they quit playing ball and graduated. Much of that has to do with their only activity being based around that sport and the training for it. As soon as they didn’t have that goal anymore, they simply quit training and kept on eating. There are many ex-college and ex-NFL players in the same boat. ESPN did a piece on that topic years ago where some are actually obese now because they kept eating like the coaches told them for football and continued eating like that even after they quit training. I personally think some of that borders on laziness and stupidity.

I’m in college and I see guys like that too. It doesn’t really bother me though. Like X said, some people have the genetics. Also about diet, I don’t eat clean and I’ve pretty much always hovered around 8% bf. I’m a very active guy, but still you might loosen your diet a bit. Even if you do gain some fat, you can always loose it later. I personally don’t care how fat I am as long as it doesn’t interfere with me athletically.

One other thing that I wanted to mention too. It seems to me that all the people trying to achieve a given goal could be separated into two groups: those that are going to get it no matter what, and those that are going to fail. I mean, some people just have a mindset that they’re going to get big, and they do, even if their training and diet are messed up. It’s a hard quality to pin down. Some people, even though they may want something, just seem to always be looking for an excuse to loose.

When I first started lifting I suffered from chronic wrist pain. It got so bad that I was having trouble doing everyday tasks. So I went to the sports medicine doc, and he told me that I just had to stop lifting, probably forever, and he gave me these wrist braces that were like casts and said “come back and see me in two weeks.”

So the first thing I did when I got home was throw the wrist braces away and go to the gym, because no one was going to tell me I couldn’t lift any more. In a few months the pain was pretty much gone. Now, it was probably pretty stupid to ignore the doc like that, but my mindset was “I’m doing this no matter what, and the pain can such my dick.”

I think mindset plays a huge role. Just something to consider.

JMB

Thanks for all the feedback. Yeah, I know genetics play a huge role in a lot of this, and yeah, how many calories as well. That’s why I have been eating pretty much as much as I possibly can and letting the pasta and pizza slip in every once and awhile. And yeah, getting past the mental block is huge. Being a FFB the only thing I don’t want to do is get fat again.

I found what Prof X to be true myself (found it the hardway)… I read all the diet articles on here and obsessed over eating clean.

I realized that I’m pretty active, and there’s now way that i’ll meet my calorie requirement on fucking celery.

I actually still don’t eat like “crap”. I rarely ever have sweets, soda, etc, just cause it’s not up my alley. But I’m not turning down bread, pasta, eggs, milk, I always have double and triple servings of whatever I’m eating, and finish it off with milk. Busted out the old juicer and offered to clean my neighbor’s yard if I can have the oranges that he doesn’t eat.

Thus I have oranges up the wazoo when they’re in season.

Truth is man, you want to bulk up, eat fucking everything, when u want to cut, then deal with the fat thing. If you go about it correctly it should shed off.

Sprinting and weighted interval training + really clean diet = weight loss.

Thats my opinion, it might not be valid, cause no male in my family is beyond maybe 15% bodyfat, my dad is like 10-12% and all he does is take the stairs at work and play ball with me every saturday.

So like Prof X said, it might just be that FFB mental block.

-Xen

Hey fellas, this is my first post…

Prof X, I had a friend that could eat ice cream all day, screw the rest of the time, and still put on size at the gym, so I definately agree that a lot of people are just genetic freaks. But a lot of people in university gyms are roiding newbies, and it shows. I know a guy who was probably around 160 last summer, and I saw him in the gym a few days ago; he is lean and well over 200 lbs. I guess what I’m saying is not all the huge guys are on steroids (we both had friends that show that) but some of them definately are.

Now, I am skinny as hell (6’5", ~190 lbs) and I am trying to do a clean bulk. I’ve been following Berardi’s advice to the best of my ability, and I am having pretty good success so far. But my caloric intake isn’t high enough yet. My solution? Penut butter (natural)! I throw in a tablespoon in a shake, and I’m up 100kcal. I have a few shakes a day, so if I wanted, I could get up to 1000kcal from penut butter alone. I probably wouldn’t go that far, but it sure makes adding calories easier (and makes chocolate shakes delicious). I see it as free calories, and a tiny bit of extra protein and EFAs. Is there any reason why this would be a bad idea?

Are college kids stupid? How can I answer this without pissing people off? Hell yeah they’re stupid!!! But that is just a fact of life. It has little to do with how huge you are. Most college aged guys (18-24)are testosterone factories, they can put on muscle by just thinking about lifting heavy. Bastards.

When you’re at the gym, quit looking around at what everyone else is doing. You are not ‘everyone else’. When you are in the cafeteria, quit looking at what ‘everyone else’ is eating.

Do what you gotta do for yourself. Keep your eyes on YOUR path - it’s the only path you have any control over.

Yeah, don’t be a hater.

Im in college and im stupid.

But I train like a pro.

I’m in the same boat as you man give or take five pounds on either extreme.

I go through the same shit but I also ask the guys questions. Some of them have been training since they were 16-17 and you’d expect those kinds of results in 5-6 years.

some are either genetic freaks and/or using roids.

Another thing to take into consideration is that once you get to a certain point and you’ve got a huge BMR from all that muscle, seems that clean eating and such takes a back seat to getting your calories in.

Main thing is if you stick with it you’ll have that much more appreciation for your gains and won’t take them for granted and become someone who gets pointed to when the muscle to fat myth comes up.

Ive been at it for 2 years and most of the guys I’ve talked to who naturally attained the physique I want took minimum of 5 years so Im settling in for the long haul.

[quote]JMB wrote:
One other thing that I wanted to mention too. It seems to me that all the people trying to achieve a given goal could be separated into two groups: those that are going to get it no matter what, and those that are going to fail. I mean, some people just have a mindset that they’re going to get big, and they do, even if their training and diet are messed up. It’s a hard quality to pin down. Some people, even though they may want something, just seem to always be looking for an excuse to loose.
[/quote]

I agree with this completely. When I first started posting on some of these boards, I listed the weight I was using at the time for dumbbell curls. I then got responses as if this were impossible without doing what pro bodybuilders are doing. The truth was, I didn’t even consider it to be that much when I first listed the weight (and still don’t). I never walked into the gym and said, “That weight right there is something I will never get to”. I knew I wanted more size so I kept going up in the weight used for exercises and eating more. It appears that many set up obstacles for themselves or simply accept that they can’t do something instead of simply pushing until they get it.

Common sense also plays a role here. If you are losing weight because you ONLY eat tuna, chicken breasts, and protein shakes and can’t seem to gain much muscle, isn’t it obvious that your eating habits need to change? If you are 6’4" and barely break 180lbs and claim to get sick if you train 4 days in a week (as one other poster claims as his reason for trying HIT), doesn’t the emergency light go off in your head that you might be eating wrong or training wrong? Why isn’t it common sense to then immediately drop what isn’t working and make changes until it does? Why isn’t diet one of the first areas looked at?

I don’t know where I saw this, but probably from Dan John or this site:

The more I eat and the heavier I train, the better my genetics get.