Are Bodypart Splits Useless?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

[quote]forbes wrote:
IrishMarc and RSGZ

if you looked at my earlier post, you’ll notice i said nothing wrong about splits.

while ALL big guys you may have spoken to got big off of splits, i’ve met many a people who’ve gotten big of BOTH.

im not disregarding the benefits of splits. but i dont like how many split advocates TOTALLY disregard TBT.

and to IrishMarc

what did you mean by your comment?[/quote]

How big are these guys?

I’m talking about guys that have 20" biceps, and over a decade of experience.

22

I’ve done both, for me, splits work better, this is my current split;

Back
Chest
Legs
Shoulder/arms
cardio

The days off I take fall randomly in there, but I usually try and take two days off a week. Since doing my training like this, I’ve gotten much stronger and put on some good size, but even more so I’ve excelled as an athlete.

I play lots of sports but I’m a police foundations college kid and training like this (especially leg day) has helped immensley with making my program easier. More then full body has, so for me, splits win all, athlete, bodybuilder, whatever.

From other people I’ve heard that splits contain mostly isolation exercises so they aren’t as affective. My split workouts still include squats, deadlifts, olympic lifts, pullups etc, so I never understood where that statement came from.

23

[quote]Professor X wrote:

This is the only activity where people try to write off the accomplishments of others by acting as if they only see results because of “genetics and drugs”.

You NEVER hear someone say, “I know you want to be a doctor…but don’t listen to the really good ones who are world famous because they are just ‘genetically smart’”.[/quote]

Actually this mindset IS present everywhere - in different forms.

“He was probably born rich!”

But that’s a topic for the GAL section.

24

[quote]NateOrade wrote:
Professor X wrote:

This is the only activity where people try to write off the accomplishments of others by acting as if they only see results because of “genetics and drugs”.

You NEVER hear someone say, “I know you want to be a doctor…but don’t listen to the really good ones who are world famous because they are just ‘genetically smart’”.

Actually this mindset IS present everywhere - in different forms.

“He was probably born rich!”

But that’s a topic for the GAL section.[/quote]

It’s sour grapes. It also seems to get a pass when it comes to bodybuilding for some strange reason. They will see a guy with 20" arms and actually hold the thought that they would NOT know what works or should actually be the last person you could learn from.

In all areas of life, I can’t think of a scenario where if you want to stand out in a certain activity that you should avoid those who have actually excelled themselves.

It’s a complete lack of common sense mixed with “short man syndrome”.

25

The best answer I can give as to whether or not splits are useless is that you should work every muscle in your body as often as one’s recovery ability allows, and if following that ideology would fall into the realm of a split, then so be it.

I personally follow a split, but I’ve found full-body workouts to be effective in the past as well.

26

[quote]Professor X wrote:
NateOrade wrote:
Professor X wrote:

This is the only activity where people try to write off the accomplishments of others by acting as if they only see results because of “genetics and drugs”.

You NEVER hear someone say, “I know you want to be a doctor…but don’t listen to the really good ones who are world famous because they are just ‘genetically smart’”.

Actually this mindset IS present everywhere - in different forms.

“He was probably born rich!”

But that’s a topic for the GAL section.

It’s sour grapes. It also seems to get a pass when it comes to bodybuilding for some strange reason. They will see a guy with 20" arms and actually hold the thought that they would NOT know what works or should actually be the last person you could learn from.

In all areas of life, I can’t think of a scenario where if you want to stand out in a certain activity that you should avoid those who have actually excelled themselves.

It’s a complete lack of common sense mixed with “short man syndrome”.
[/quote]

Yup.

And message forums give them a venue to “band together”.

27

http://profile.ak.facebook.com/object3/1027/60/n16425572055_3126.jpg

dont know if this link works. but here is a pic of my friend who uses TBT. this was taken a few years ago. he’s MUCH bigger now and i’ll try to get another pick of him (considering this one works).

28

[quote]Professor X wrote:
forbes wrote:

No one is saying TBT won’t build muscle. However, this isn’t about “building SOME muscle”. This is about what produces the largest gains in muscle mass the fastest and has built the majority of the best developed bodies that have walked the planet.[/quote]

the major debate b/w splits and TBT is that you need many exercises and sets to blast a muscle to oblivion and let it recover for a week. however, who’s to say you need that many sets per muscle group to elicit a growth response. i find that 6 total sets per larger muscle group (2 of the sets taken to absolute failure) and 2-3 sets for smaller ones (taken to absolute failure) are enough for me, as of now, to promote muscle growth. the simple fact is that with such intensity, i dont need a host of sets and exercises.

and as for strength, wouldnt you agree that motor learning occurs best with frequent exposure? thats where TBT is best and im in the stages of building a strength base.

then there’s work capacity. i simply can’t handle 9-12 sets per muscle group cuz i’d be fried after the first 6. i uderstand that many people can handle more,and in that case, a split may be needed to further the development of a muscle group. however, I personally am not at that point yet.

and one element (THE most important of them all) is either being forgotten or not mentioned…PROGRESSION. it really doesnt matter what kind of split you use, if you’re making progress from the various progression methods, then IMHO, TBT or a split comes down for the most part, to a preference thing.

29

[quote]forbes wrote:

the major debate b/w splits and TBT is that you …[/quote]

No one needs a reminder about what the argument is about. I am saying open your fucking eyes and LOOK and SEE who the biggest guys are and how they trained. That can NOT be a fucking coincidence. I will be very glad the moment one of you worrying this much about TBT logs on with stats bigger and stronger than most of the guys competing in NPC as heavy and super heavy weights.

We have yet to see this. Maybe you can be the first.

30

The more I do this thing called lifting, the more I learn about my body and what it responds to. Trial & error and real world results have been my greatest tools so far, no amount of theory has topped that.

Sounds like you’re overcomplicating things a bit forbes - I get in the gym, lift my heavy sets, do some lighter ones to get more blood flowing and move onto the next exercise. As soon as I stopped focusing on the small things, the bigger picture became much clearer.

31

If you took 300 random samples from the largest drug-tested bodybuilders in whatever federation they compete under and asked them to write out a typical training week for themselves, what do you think you’d find?

And since we already know the answer does anyone here still think it’s a coincidence?

No. Not if you’re eyes are open and your head is not currently up your ass.

I might add that I do enjoy doing HIT with 20 rep squats but I’m also not going to kid myself about my enjoyment of it being the only reason I’ll do it.

Look at it this way, if someone was paying you $500,000 to gain 30 lbs naturally in a year, how would you train?

32

[quote]forbes wrote:
Professor X wrote:
forbes wrote:

No one is saying TBT won’t build muscle. However, this isn’t about “building SOME muscle”. This is about what produces the largest gains in muscle mass the fastest and has built the majority of the best developed bodies that have walked the planet.

the major debate b/w splits and TBT is that you need many exercises and sets to blast a muscle to oblivion and let it recover for a week. however, who’s to say you need that many sets per muscle group to elicit a growth response. i find that 6 total sets per larger muscle group (2 of the sets taken to absolute failure) and 2-3 sets for smaller ones (taken to absolute failure) are enough for me, as of now, to promote muscle growth. the simple fact is that with such intensity, i dont need a host of sets and exercises.

and as for strength, wouldnt you agree that motor learning occurs best with frequent exposure? thats where TBT is best and im in the stages of building a strength base.

then there’s work capacity. i simply can’t handle 9-12 sets per muscle group cuz i’d be fried after the first 6. i uderstand that many people can handle more,and in that case, a split may be needed to further the development of a muscle group. however, I personally am not at that point yet.

and one element (THE most important of them all) is either being forgotten or not mentioned…PROGRESSION. it really doesnt matter what kind of split you use, if you’re making progress from the various progression methods, then IMHO, TBT or a split comes down for the most part, to a preference thing. [/quote]

You can get to stripper size (say ~220 or so at average height) that way, but I’ve NEVER SEEN ANY EVIDENCE OF ANYONE GETTING PAST THAT BY DOING TBT.

You can quote and bitch until your fingers fall off from all the typing, even DC and Westside use splits…

33

westside uses a modified upper/lower split. an upper/lower split allows for more volume per body part, but without overdoing it.

i think an upper lower split is for the most part the MOST a person (by which i mean average person)should split there body parts into.

34

[quote]forbes wrote:
westside uses a modified upper/lower split. an upper/lower split allows for more volume per body part, but without overdoing it.

i think an upper lower split is for the most part the MOST a person (by which i mean average person)should split there body parts into.[/quote]

What the fuck is an “average person”? This is a bodybuilding forum. The goal is to be ABOVE average. You seem lost.

35

Whoever keeps saying tbt training is best for strength doesn’t know anything. IMO tbt becomes less and less useful the more developed you get. I’ve gained strength faster on a pull-push-legs routine then anything so far.

36

[quote]forbes wrote:
IrishMarc and RSGZ

if you looked at my earlier post, you’ll notice i said nothing wrong about splits.

while ALL big guys you may have spoken to got big off of splits, i’ve met many a people who’ve gotten big of BOTH.

im not disregarding the benefits of splits. but i dont like how many split advocates TOTALLY disregard TBT.

and to IrishMarc

what did you mean by your comment?[/quote]

I mean you should stop splitting hairs.

Bodypart splits work better for hypertrophy due to higher volume loads.

TBT work for newbs and as a change.

Both work some just better than others.

37

[quote]forbes wrote:
westside uses a modified upper/lower split. an upper/lower split allows for more volume per body part, but without overdoing it.

i think an upper lower split is for the most part the MOST a person (by which i mean average person)should split there body parts into.[/quote]

You’re eating your own words, even Westside uses a split routine. Take your fucking blinders off man.

You post one pic of some guy who supoposedly uses a TBT routine and that’s supposed to mean something?

Meanwhile, every fucking bodybuilder since the beginning of time has used splits. Name one bodybuilder, drugs or natural that uses TBT? that has also been successful?

You can’t do it.

Hell, even Poliquin put this debate to bed and said, he uses splits even with all his world class athletes.

So, I gotta go with 50 years of bodybuilding and Poliquin (who is arguably the greatest living trainer) over you and the TBT-Waterbury boys.

It makes no sense, your workouts must be piss poor. The amount of work I do per workout, there is no way I could add more bodyparts.

Personally, I think TBT is an excuse to be lazy, at best you can workout a few times a week and pat yourself on the back like you are doing something with the rationale you are working the whole body. Splits allow you to hit muscles more times a week.

38

Maybe TBT fans are such because they aren’t yet strong enough to where it’s impossible to benefit from it.

If you squat and leg press big numbers, bench and press big numbers, deadlift and row big numbers you will never be able to put them all in the same workout and get much from it.

When you’re relatively weak, you can put that all together three times per week. When you get to the point that you are hoisting the really big-boy weights you have to limit the bodyparts you train per workout.

TBT = benching 155lbs, splits = curling 155lbs?

39

to Prof X:

let me clarify. TBT and upper/lower splits are best for “average” people that want to look ABOVE average.

and i’ll take you up on your offer.

to greekdawg:

does reg park, steve reeves, john grimek, alan calvert, mark hamilton berry, john McCallum, joseph curtis and sergio oliva mean anything to you? and to say TBT is an excuse to be lazy, you’re dead wrong. i could say the same for you. what, you’re not man enough to work your whole body in one session with compounds and isolations? you have to wuss out and split your body up to make it “easier”?

and many of you will REALLY hate me for doing this (above and beyond the hate towards me now), but i must quote something CW said in the training split roundtable:

"Professional bodybuilders typically don’t follow total body routines because they don’t need to. If I’m born with the natural ability to drop into the full splits, I’m not going to spend my time stretching my adductors and hamstrings. And if I’m born with the ability to build huge quads, calves, and traps with minimal training, then I’m not going to spend my time training them either.

Instead, I’m going to pick and choose what needs the most improvement. That’s where a body part split comes relevant, and that’s what Arnold was referring to when he said bodybuilding is like sculpting: you need to add muscle where you need it most.

The majority of T-Nation readers, however, need to add muscle everywhere, not just to specific areas. And that’s where total body training becomes the best option. I don’t care what professional bodybuilders do unless whoever I’m working with is already at that level."

pay close attention to what he was saying there. thats where im coming from.

I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST SPLITS! NOTHING!

40

[quote]derek wrote:
Maybe TBT fans are such because they aren’t yet strong enough to where it’s impossible to benefit from it.

If you squat and leg press big numbers, bench and press big numbers, deadlift and row big numbers you will never be able to put them all in the same workout and get much from it.

When you’re relatively weak, you can put that all together three times per week. When you get to the point that you are hoisting the really big-boy weights you have to limit the bodyparts you train per workout.

TBT = benching 155lbs, splits = curling 155lbs?[/quote]

you see, i agree with you. and this is what im trying to say. when you’re trying to develop a stength and size BASE, then TBT all the way. i do agree that when you begin to put up big numbers, THEN (and only then) is it appropriate to “split” things up.