T Nation

Are Bodypart Splits Useless?

I just read an article about how full body training is better than splits. The article ALMOST but not quite went as far as to say that if you were doing splits. You wouldn�??t make gains unless you were on drugs. Now I�??ve build some descent muscle so far drug free and on a split routine. So I don�??t understand why people would say that splits are useless???

I�??m incredibly curious about this. Because if I�??m building muscle using an inferior method, then theoretically I should explode if I switch to full body or an upper lower split (the only split the article thought would be beneficial drug free)

I take a look at the guys in the powerful images. Could you build a body like that using full body training???

Don’t believe everything you read, if what you are doing is working then keep doing it.

People will say some crazy things if they trying to sell you something.

[quote]RSGZ wrote:
Don’t believe everything you read, if what you are doing is working then keep doing it.

People will say some crazy things if they trying to sell you something.[/quote]

Just after reading your response, I happened to glance over at todays strong words. Couldn’t help but laugh.

I’m always willing to try something. But I hate wasting time. I want to be efficient, intense and productive in the gym. I want to make gains consistently. And I use to read alot, but not so much anymore because there is to much contradicting information.

One guys says always do this, another says NEVER. It’s just starts fcuking with your mind.

What I’ve done is picked one or two coaches whose ideas and principles I agree with and try and stick with them

as far as TBT goes you cant argue its good for putting on size because no one has ever done it.

every single BBer and big person has used a split routine.

before everything you learned in science class, before everything you learned from certification, use common sense, observation, and experience.

dont just believe something because you hear or read it. there isnt anyhting too complex about this but that really hasnt stopped people from making something so simple as working out from turning it into advanced physics.

It depends on a lot of things. How advanced you are and what your goals are 2 of the bigger variables here. (Answer those if you want better more detailed responses)

Yes, you can grow on both. No, don’t expect to ‘explode’ if you switch.

Don’t over think anything here. As you mentioned, follow some trainers advice whom you think is sound. You can read just about anything these days, especially on this stuff, with every one saying something different.

[quote]silverbullet wrote:
RSGZ wrote:
Don’t believe everything you read, if what you are doing is working then keep doing it.

People will say some crazy things if they trying to sell you something.

Just after reading your response, I happened to glance over at todays strong words. Couldn’t help but laugh.

I’m always willing to try something. But I hate wasting time. I want to be efficient, intense and productive in the gym. I want to make gains consistently. And I use to read alot, but not so much anymore because there is to much contradicting information.

One guys says always do this, another says NEVER. It’s just starts fcuking with your mind.

What I’ve done is picked one or two coaches whose ideas and principles I agree with and try and stick with them

[/quote]

The most logical thing you can possibly do is look at how the men who have built the most muscle train. I have yet to see anyone with particularly large muscles train with a full body workout.

Do not believe everything you read, see or hear. Think for yourself. If what you are doing is working, then the stupidest thing you can do is change it.

I stopped listening to coaches who have too dogmatic and illogical views. I really don’t care how many scientific words or flow charts an author can pull out of his ass if he doesnt look how I want to look or doesn’t seem to be churning out clients who look like I want to look.
I suggest you do the same.

[quote]silverbullet wrote:
RSGZ wrote:

One guys says always do this, another says NEVER. It’s just starts fcuking with your mind.
[/quote]

Fucking right it does.

[quote]silverbullet wrote:
RSGZ wrote:
Don’t believe everything you read, if what you are doing is working then keep doing it.

People will say some crazy things if they trying to sell you something.

Just after reading your response, I happened to glance over at todays strong words. Couldn’t help but laugh.

I’m always willing to try something. But I hate wasting time. I want to be efficient, intense and productive in the gym. I want to make gains consistently. And I use to read alot, but not so much anymore because there is to much contradicting information.

One guys says always do this, another says NEVER. It’s just starts fcuking with your mind.

What I’ve done is picked one or two coaches whose ideas and principles I agree with and try and stick with them

[/quote]

It gets much less complicated when you stop following every word of people who barely look like they train seriously.

If most of the big guys trained one way, it would be really stupid to walk around believing that it was inefficient.

This is the only activity where people try to write off the accomplishments of others by acting as if they only see results because of “genetics and drugs”. You NEVER hear someone say, “I know you want to be a doctor…but don’t listen to the really good ones who are world famous because they are just ‘genetically smart’”.

In my experience, if you’re trying to get big do a 4-5 day split and eat like it’s going out of style. If you’re trying to be a better, stronger athlete do an upper/lower or whole body split and eat like it’s going out of style. Not saying they’re mutually exclusive, just saying that if focusing on one goal that’s the way to go as far as I’ve found.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
It gets much less complicated when you stop following every word of people who barely look like they train seriously.
[/quote]

Oh, but don’t you know that they’re all “fighters” who don’t want to be big,
but who still know so much more about hypertrophy (for some reason?) than people specializing in it, that they could revolutionize bodybuilding in a pinch?

But hey, you’re just some meathead who trains all day and thinks that all the fat he gained is actually muscle-mass.

/end sarcasm

All of the gains you got from the split training are obviously an illusion because splits don’t work, didn’t you know that?

Seriously, here is an article I wrote that highlights the positives and negatives of both types of training. Since gaining size is about recruiting a larger number of motor units, split training generally does that more effectively so it gets the nod in that department most of the time.

i’d have to say that this has gotten out of hand. i hate it when people take one side over the other. thats just plain stupid and shouldnt be that way.

both approaches can work, and both can fail.

i personally like total body workouts better because i like hitting my muscle more frequently, with gung ho intensity. but that doesnt mean i hate split routines. im still trying to add a base, so i find TBT is a better choice (plus i find them more fun, and as tim mentioned in his article, is a very important thing)

to the TBT people: don’t bang on the people who enjoy splits and get results from them. obviously hundreds of bodybuilders cant be wrong. you say its all steroids and no hard work? HA! thats just plain stupid. you stil have to work hard to build muscle, steroids or not.

to the split people: dont discredit the many successful body builders of old times past. many of them built great physiques with total body workout plans. even mike mentzer did. and even though his training philosophy was crazy near the end of his career, he still built an amazing body early on using the TBT method.

bottom line: both are good and effective. many successful trainees use both, like our very own CT. if you’re dogmatic about a certain method, feel free to explain why you love it so much…but leave it at that!

[quote]forbes wrote:

to the split people: dont discredit the many successful body builders of old times past. many of them built great physiques with total body workout plans. even mike mentzer did.

and even though his training philosophy was crazy near the end of his career, he still built an amazing body early on using the TBT method.
[/quote]

I thought Mentzer built nearly all of the size training just like everyone else. It wasn’t until LATER that he changed his style of training AFTER he was already big. Even then, are people calling HIT “total body training” now?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
forbes wrote:

to the split people: dont discredit the many successful body builders of old times past. many of them built great physiques with total body workout plans. even mike mentzer did.

and even though his training philosophy was crazy near the end of his career, he still built an amazing body early on using the TBT method.

I thought Mentzer built nearly all of the size training just like everyone else. It wasn’t until LATER that he changed his style of training AFTER he was already big. Even then, are people calling HIT “total body training” now?

[/quote]

I would say yes. Most HIT enthusiasts would consider it TBT.

in mike’s video, when he gives an example workout in which to include his training principles, he gives a total body workout, and prescribes to do it 3x a week.

Yes now go lift something.

[quote]forbes wrote:
in mike’s video, when he gives an example workout in which to include his training principles, he gives a total body workout, and prescribes to do it 3x a week.[/quote]

That’s nice.

Since I switched to a split routine, I’ve been getting bigger and stronger than ever.

While both may have their place, splits are undoubtably doing good things for me so I will stick to them.

It’s like guys comparing a “cut/bulk” approach to a prolonged bulk, because a coach said so.

ALL big guys whom I’ve spoken with got that way eating lots of food for years, and doing splits.

IrishMarc and RSGZ

if you looked at my earlier post, you’ll notice i said nothing wrong about splits.

while ALL big guys you may have spoken to got big off of splits, i’ve met many a people who’ve gotten big of BOTH.

im not disregarding the benefits of splits. but i dont like how many split advocates TOTALLY disregard TBT.

and to IrishMarc

what did you mean by your comment?

[quote]forbes wrote:
IrishMarc and RSGZ

if you looked at my earlier post, you’ll notice i said nothing wrong about splits.

while ALL big guys you may have spoken to got big off of splits, i’ve met many a people who’ve gotten big of BOTH.

im not disregarding the benefits of splits. but i dont like how many split advocates TOTALLY disregard TBT.

and to IrishMarc

what did you mean by your comment?[/quote]

That’s funny. I’ve met NO people who truly got really big from only using TBT (and by “really big” I mean looks large enough to compete in a heavy weight class in bodybuilding).

Again, even Mentzer built the majority of his size using high volume routines that every other pro back then used. That is one of the reasons HIT gets criticized as much as it does.

No one is saying TBT won’t build muscle. However, this isn’t about “building SOME muscle”. This is about what produces the largest gains in muscle mass the fastest and has built the majority of the best developed bodies that have walked the planet.

Bah, this again.

I like TBT and a slash in calories when I’m fat.

I like various splits pretty much every other time.

Ignore the dogma. Try everything. Then keep doing what works for you.