T Nation

Are AIs and PCTs a Must or Not?


#1

I did trial run as suggested by a friend with some "experience " with gear. He had me do a 10 week cycle with very low doses to see how I reacted to it. I did 300 mg Test and 175 mg Deca weekly. I asked him about AIs and PCTs and he said he doesn’t use them because they weaken the gear and as long as your not using high doses, it’s not necessary. I had some great results but I am deathly scared of GYNO. Would love to get some feedback and recommendations before I try my next cycle. Thanks in advance


#2

no offense but your friend is an idiot. 300 mg of test a week is enough to cause aromatization of Test and to shut down your natural production of Test. I’m surprised you didnt get gyno. AIs help free up more test since its not getting converted to E2 and a good PCT program will help restore your natural production and help you keep alot of your gains.


#3

Thanks for the input. I definitely want to do some more research before next cycle. Do you have any recommendations on books, or websites that could help me learn more?


#4

first check out the stickies on the TRT category, then look at almost anything written by KSMan in the TRT forum. Posting of websites are prohibited pertaining to gear. There are tons of forums posting info about gear, dosing, sources, etc. Sorry but you gotta do your homework on that one.


#5

I think it’s important to contol estrogen during a cycle, and if medically needed, at other times. You need estrogen for optimal gains, but to let estrogen levels raise beyond normal ranges for extra gains - is reckless, and supraphysiological levels of estrogen show no benefit unless one considers prostate growth and other sides as beneficial. Any aromatizing steriod used above normal levels (test) should be controlled and balanced. There are some compounds that alleviate symptoms like deca with its low androgenic effect but high binding power, and masteron (or dht in general) and it’s displacement of estrogen, but once dosages get high, and I’m not even talking what people consider high but supraphysiological (anything above normal) levels. Old timers had to roll the dice or get creative with compound stacking to alleviate sides, which is good but an ai (when needed) is a almost necessary addition.

Excess estrogen makes recovery harder and has been shown to damageIs testicle cells and prostate damage/growth for a few extra pounds which is most likely only water? Estrogen has been shown to regulate igf-1 in muscle in a negative way when it comes to building muscle but positive in some others like smooth muscle and vascular.

It’s a balanacing act - you want to control estrogen and try to keep it high enough to maintain/help with glucose sensitivity & muscle glucose storage; healthy hair, skin, lipids, and vascular system, etc. But on the other side you do not want estrogen to get too high as high estrogen levels, besides gyno and such, causes testicular cell damage which can/is permanent as well as make recovery harder, among other things. Estrogen is needed for overall health, and to optimize hypertrophy, but excess is excess and causes more harm than good.

So the point and goal should be to maintain estrogen within a healthy range; I like to keep it on the low side, but I get regular blood work. In general I feel that everyone should use a low dose of an AI (my preference is exemestane) with aromatizing steroids and up the dose only if needed.

I don’t have much on PCT having only done it once recently, but not comfortable suggesting any thing other than pct. Some people have had great success with tapering and other methods, but it’s not just stopping. I personally feel it’s of great importance to control things during a cycle to help make recovery easier and I’m a big big fan of hcg to maintain LH/testicular function during a cycle.


#6

As a guy who has has done a lot of old school cycles with no ai , i will tell you they make your cycle so much better. I have no loss in libido and feal way better, less of a bloated feeling etc.
I am also coasting now i am splitting my test into two shots a week 150mg x 2.
Until about 5 weeks out then ill go down to trt dose 150mg weekly drop al . Then get ready to blast.


#7

Thanks for your input Beat. These might be some stupid follow up questions but I’m clearly pretty dumb and new to this. 1. Blood work before, during, after? LOL, AND…would this be at my primary physician or a specialist? 2. I looked up your suggested AI. Research said a good starting dose is 12.5mg ED (every day) or 25mg EOD (every other day). Would you consider that adequate or low enough? 3. I didn’t quite understand what you were saying about the DECA. Does it help manage the estrogen? I was told that the Deca was a must because it helps lubricate joints and strengthen tendons but I did get a very mild case of deca dick and was wondering if there was an alternative without that side? Thanks again for your time and help.


#8

Thanks Joe. I did actually notice a little “water weight” while I was on. So to make sure I’m following you…off cycle, you still maintain with test? And right before starting a cycle you drop test dose for 5 weeks then go with higher dose? And your on AI whole time or just when you cycle? Sorry for all the questions.


#9

I am on trt for life,which means every six months i do blood work, and then get my script from doc.
I just started doing a blast after getting script , a blast but stay away from, long chain esters, deca durabolin, equipoise, Sustanon as they stsy in system to long.
As far as al i just started doing it , and never had flacid dick felt like horn dog , and stronger but joints feal a little dryer .
I will stop the al inhibitor 5 weeks out as to not fuck up test and compromise my doc trt.
My doc says e2 conversion is high the higher the bdfat, so until i get much leaner al are out. On their side.


#10
  1. Yes, I recommend getting blood work often when cycling. Once or twice a year otherwise.
    -Before so you get a baseline of where everything is at before you start.
    -During so you can dial in your ai if need be, at doses above hrt it’s not as complicated to get it right. Also helps you to see where liver, kidney function are, etc.
    -After so you can see how you recovered and compare to baseline.
    -I have my doc do them. You can also do them on your own through an online place: they order the labs, you go to the lab and get blood drawn and they ship it to the lab to be reviewed.

  2. Exemestane (Aromasin) is my favorite. The half life is far shorter in men and it’s a suicidal aromatase inhibitor. It’s short half life and way of action makes it a poor choice for less than daily administration- ignore the eod recommendations. If you get pharm pills though they are really small, but still easy to divide. Research liquid is easy to divide the dose and I’ve never had a problem, but just use pharm pills now for convenience.

  3. I was rambling in my thread response earlier. But I was using Deca’s low androgenic character and strong binding properties, especially to the prostate and scalp, to talk about how different compounds can be beneficial or make worse side effects. To a certain extent nandrolones can help alleviate prostate problems even in the presence of agonists to a certain point based off many factors.
    -Primo is probably the closest to deca but far weaker and without hardly any sides. Some people say EQ, but I’d compare eq more to mast and an athletic enhancer as it’s far from the gains of deca but definitely is a great compound for it’s purpose. You might try npp (nandrolone Phenylpropionate), it’s great short acting deca that many say doesn’t carry as bad of side effects, me as well, but for me deca dick always catches up if I’m on too long or too high of a dose. Npp is great for 6+ week cycles. But really just a simple cycle of test is amazing!


#11

Damn bro-science, worthless and harmful. And the guy who deals out this shit thinks that he is really helping mankind. You need to be your own well educated expert.