T Nation

Approx. 2 Yrs on TRT - Finally Got Bloods Done


#1

So, little background:

40 y/o male
6’ 220ish, probably low-to-mid teens BF

Starting in January of 2015, I did a 12 week 700mg primo/250mg test cycle, after which I shifted to a TRT dose of test e rather than PCT. I have been on TRT since then, about 145 mg per week.

*Test E 250, injecting 0.25 ml E3D = 145 mg avg.

So, after almost two years of this, I finally got bloods done. I went in for my annual work physical and spoke to my primary care (NP not MD) about (finally) getting a legit scrip. She was way more receptive than I expected, and went over the different options. She ordered blood work along with my other labs so we could see where I was and make adjustments as necessary. She didn’t order estrogen or SHBG, so no numbers. Didn’t think I’d have to ask for those, but haven’t been seeing any issues.

Serum Testosterone: >1500 ng/dL Range: 348-1197
Free Test: 26.8 pg/mL Range: 6.8 - 21.5
LH: 0.35 mIU/mL Range: 1.24 - 8.62
FSH: 0.30 mIU/mL Range: 1.27 - 19.26
Prolactin: 7.82 ng/mL Range: 2.64 - 13.13
PSA: 1.094 ng/mL Range: 0 - 4.0

So, not sure what my total test is obviously, and I don’t think(?) there is a reliable way to calculate total from free. I’m sure my PC will want to lower my dosage, and I’ll admit I have mixed feelings on it. I feel great where I am and with my current occupation requiring I stay in way-above-average physical condition, I’m hesitant to lower my levels.

I originally went on self-administered TRT not because I had found low T through testing, but because I got tired of the ups and downs from natural production. I like hitting the gym and not feel like I’m dragging ass for no reason - I can understand dragging ass if I didn’t get much sleep, or haven’t been eating well or something but when I feel good on the way to the gym, don’t feel bad generally speaking, but just can’t seem to do anything productive in the gym, that sucks. On the level I’m on, I feel great, a lot more consistent, and even my wife says I’m constantly in a better mood (I’ve always been a pretty moody guy).

So my question is, is there a legit health reason to lower my levels aside from ‘this isn’t normal’? Full disclosure - my total cholesterol is 204 (barely above the line at 199), but my LDL is 136 (reference range is 0 - 99) - no family history of cholesterol/heart issues. I know there are dietary things I can do to lower that, so my question stands. I’ve also read somewhere that current research is showing high cholesterol numbers may not be the issue we’ve always thought, at least in trained populations.

Side note: WBC and neutrophils are also low, but I have no idea if that is connected.


#2

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

You go to gym with energy or have to force things with adrenaline?

In USA? You can do your own labs in most States and pay out of pocket.

Testing LH/FSH on TRT is dumb, avoid.

You probably have E2 problems.

Choice of lab is leading to TT >1500 reporting limit. Quest goes higher.
FT looks OK. TT may be inflated by increased SHBG+T where SHBG is increased by elevated E2.

If you are a normal anastrozole over-responder, you could try 0.5mg at time of injections, but do read the stickies for more issues to be understood.

Your writing makes me uncertain about you feel great or like shit now.
Whats going on with libido and performance - this relates to E2 levels.

" Didn’t think I’d have to ask for those, but haven’t been seeing any issues." that is probably a very inadequate approach.

Thyroid can affect energy, fat gain, mood, body temperature. Many here have issues, often from not using iodized salt.


#3

Sorry, should have been more clear. I currently feel great on the level I’ve been on, but after finding out how high my level is I am lowering my dose slightly - I’ve been at 145mg per week on average (E3D injections) but I’m dropping it to 116mg per week.

Plenty of energy in the gym, no issues with performance or libido - my libido has always been high, and didn’t really increase much with TRT.

Having less acne than I used to before TRT (especially concerning the zits/ingrown hairs or whatever I used to get on my ass and shoulders).

Was taking an AI for a while, but was having performance issues then. Quit taking it for a while and the issues cleared up so I haven’t taken any since.

I periodically do a run of HCG (basically get a vial and inject regular dosing until the vial is gone), but don’t do it continuously.

I travel overseas for work, which is the only reason I sought a scrip in the first place - would make it easier to travel with it if I have paperwork (haven’t had any issues yet, but feel like I’m rolling the dice here). I brought it up with my PCP (an NP), and she seemed fairly receptive at first - was at least willing to discuss and test. Once we got the results back, she has told me to discontinue completely for three months and then we can retest and she will see if I need it or not. Yeah, not gonna do that. Can’t afford to crash right now, and I like the way things are rather than go back to the natural up-and-down, peaks and valleys I was going through for the last couple years before starting TRT. I have some other options for getting a scrip, it will just cost me out of pocket (more than likely).

Haven’t had E2 tested, planning to do that soon.

My PCP is concerned with my LH/FSH levels. I have been snipped, so fertility is not a concern. My understanding is that is the main (if not sole) out come of LH/FSH. Anything I’ve been able to find online only mentions fertility.

Thanks for your help, I’ll go through the stickies again.


#4

Hey bro - I appreciate your situation. 49 y/o llifter myself, used to roid in the 80’s and then went the SARMS route recently and have been experimenting with TRT vs Natty. Anyway - here’s my thoughts - the only real risk with T levels as high as yours are hematocrit and PSA. You didn’t post those but need to check. Higher T raises hematocrit levels due to the extra red blood cell production, making blood thicker. There is a simple cure for this - just give blood ocationally. Hematorcrit over 50% means you either need to lower the dose or give blood. PSA is something you obviously need to watch as a man over 40. Other than that - your lipds look relatively ok and a simple statin would lower the LDL and total cholesterol if that was a concern.
FWIW - my best friend from college is a very successful Cardiologist who uses Testosterone to improve health / lipid profiles in hundreds of his patients. I know him well enough that he shares personal info with me and he told me his total Test is 1800 from 4 pumps of androgel / day with 500 IU of HCG 3x week. I asked him if he intends to lower it and he said ’ hell no’ :slight_smile:

Now - if it was me - I would shoot for something around 900-1000 because there’s only so much test your body needs. Plus - sounds like you are going to blast and cruise on it - so lowering your dose for a few months might be a good idea.


#5

PSA and hematocrit were both well within range. I’ve already started lowering my dose, from 62.5mg (give or take) E3D to 50mg. That takes me from about 146mg/week on average down to 115. Planning on testing again at the 4 week mark - I’ve read that’s the minimum amount of time one should wait after adjusting dosage. Hoping to test E2 at that time as well.

Oddly enough, after a couple injections at the lower dose (just did my 3rd day before yesterday), some acne popped up on my chest. Not much, but I haven’t seen any in months.

Due to my job requirements, I’m perfectly happy keeping my levels above normal, I just thought >1500 was both vague and a little higher than I wanted.


#6

I also like high Test levels. My trough is usually about 1400 ng/dL. So far I have had only good effects and have not detected any adverse effects.

Body looks much better. Less fat, more bulging muscles. More strength and stamina. I am in a bike club. Before TRT I was a little below average. Now I am the strongest rider in the club by quite a bit.

I have been on TRT for 3 1/2 years. I currently take about 0.4 ml (80 mg) e4d, equivalent to 140mg/week. I weight about 145 lbs and am 74 yo.

My doctor suggested TRT to combat osteoporsis that was not improving with fosamax. I just had a bone density test and there was a huge improvement in bone density.

But Boatguy, you should worry about your cholesterol numbers. Test can cause cholesterol problems. You need to find out your HDL, the good cholesterol. If it is not good, you need medications to improve it. Trust me on that.


#7

Got my HDL on same blood test, it was 54 on a scale of 40-60.

LDL is high, I am going to start taking red yeast rice to get it back under control.