Apologies is someone has posted this elsewhere. A quick clip on media presentation and lack of objectivity w/r/t the Lebanon war.
Interestingly, the new agencies in question are newswire groups that act as journalists for networks - as in, all the networks buy up their materials for publication, not just the ones you don’t like.
[quote]Z-Man wrote:
http://www.counterpunch.com/cook08162006.html
[/quote]
Z-Man, I’m surprised that you haven’t yet quoted from ‘Der Volkische Beobachter’. I have no doubt that you would have found it both authoritative and enlightening. Do you still keep a pile of back issues of Der Sturmer under your bed? Julius Streicher was a journalist whose opinions, style and philosophy must be really close to your heart.
Do you spend all of your time trawling anti-Semitic websites or unraveling conspiracies?
Very easy isn’t it, just disregard any points in that article, and label them anti-semites.
For your information, a large mumber of Jews contribute to Counter Punch. Criticizing the policies of Israel is not Anti-Semitic, and to claim it as such taints the memory of the millions of Jews killed in the holocaust.
[quote]coolexec wrote:
Z-Man wrote:
http://www.counterpunch.com/cook08162006.html
Z-Man, I’m surprised that you haven’t yet quoted from ‘Der Volkische Beobachter’. I have no doubt that you would have found it both authoritative and enlightening. Do you still keep a pile of back issues of Der Sturmer under your bed? Julius Streicher was a journalist whose opinions, style and philosophy must be really close to your heart.
Do you spend all of your time trawling anti-Semitic websites or unraveling conspiracies?
[/quote]
God, you must miss the apartheid-regime.
Tell me, were you able to kill a lot of blacks?
Everyone uses propaganda…
The Lebanese are just not that good at it.
[quote]Z-Man wrote:
http://www.counterpunch.com/cook08162006.html[/quote]
Let’s see - some Islamist apologetic is angry because the media won’t show certain images out of concern for taste - which is nothing new to mainstream media - and this somehow justifies deliberate fabrication of photo news journalism?
Setting aside this polemic - which has the audacity to suggest that Hezbollah doesn’t really conduct operations from among the citizenry for cruel advantage - the problem of employees of independent news agencies like Reuters and the Associated Press intentionally doctoring images in order to advance propaganda is no mere distraction. It is a problem about the basic role of journalism, no matter what your politics.
Oh, but even better, the author is a published author on al-Jazeera, so I suspect a discussion with the guy about the value of objective journalism is a wasted effort anyway.
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
coolexec wrote:
Z-Man wrote:
http://www.counterpunch.com/cook08162006.html
Z-Man, I’m surprised that you haven’t yet quoted from ‘Der Volkische Beobachter’. I have no doubt that you would have found it both authoritative and enlightening. Do you still keep a pile of back issues of Der Sturmer under your bed? Julius Streicher was a journalist whose opinions, style and philosophy must be really close to your heart.
Do you spend all of your time trawling anti-Semitic websites or unraveling conspiracies?
God, you must miss the apartheid-regime.
Tell me, were you able to kill a lot of blacks?[/quote]
First, as nice of you as it may be, I prefer not to be addressed as “God.”
Second, why did you assume that I am not black? Are you so patronising and paternalistic in your outlook that you immediately assume that a person participating in a forum such as this cannot be a black African? Operating within your neo-Colonial paradigm you simply assume that blacks in Africa live in mud huts and swat flies, whilst whites indulge in bodybuilding and surf the Internet.
Third, South Africans are uniquely placed to take a moral stand on international issues. We have looked into the abyss - and stepped back from the edge. We averted Civil War and today have the world?s finest Constitution. Whilst your friends in Iran are frantically trying to build a nuclear bomb, South Africa unilaterally disarmed, dismantled and disposed of its nuclear arsenal.
Finally, I need to point out why I feel so strongly about anti-Semitism. I worked with countless Jews during the worst days of apartheid. The role that Jews played in our ‘Struggle’ cannot be overemphasised. I find the anti-Semitic ravings on this forum bizarre and feel compelled to respond to them.
Though Jews accounted for only about 2% of South Africa’s white population and 0.25% of South Africa’s total population, Jews (at considerable personal risk) played notable roles in the anti-apartheid movement. This was clearly against their own class interests. Some Muslims played an important role in the Struggle, but basically in later years. The difference is Muslims were not white ? they were, themselves, victims of apartheid. There was, therefore, a degree of self-interest in Muslim opposition to apartheid. Jews fought apartheid despite the fact that they could have sat back, as whites, and enjoyed its spoils.
For example, when 156 anti-apartheid political leaders were arrested in December 1956, more than half of the whites arrested were Jewish. They were charged with high treason resulting in the Treason Trial which lasted from 1956-1960. And, all of the whites initially charged in the 1963 Rivonia Trial were Jewish.
The accused in the seminal Rivonia Trial were: Nelson Mandela, Walter Sisulu, Govan Mbeki (father of Thabo Mbeki, now President of South Africa), Raymond Mhlaba, Elias Motsoaledi, Ahmed Kathrada, Denis Goldberg (Jew), Andrew Mlangeni, Walter Mkwayi, Lionel “Rusty” Bernstein (Jew), Harold Wolpe (Jew) and James Kantor (Jew). Our ‘Rivonia Trialists’ have a place in history not dissimilar to those who signed the US Declaration of Independence. During the Rivonia Trial, Jewish lawyer Arthur Chaskalson (with Isie Maisels ? another Jew) was Mandela’s defense counsel. In that trial, Dennis Goldberg, leader of the Congress of Democrats, was sentenced to life in prison along with Mandela and other ANC leaders. In 1979, Chaskalson established the Legal Resources Center (with which I have been deeply involved), an organization dedicated to the pursuit of justice and human rights in South Africa. Chaskalson (with his colleague Geoff Budlender - another friend and Jew) challenged the implementation of apartheid laws, provided legal services, and trained paralegal personnel to help blacks. When Mandela came to power he appointed Chaskalson as President of the Constitutional Court of South Africa and later as Chief Justice of South Africa.
Jewish politicians like Helen Suzman, who single-handedly kept the flame of Parliamentary Opposition burning for decades, attempted to stop the abuse of black political prisoners. Writer Nadine Gordimer helped edit Mandela’s speech in his defense at the Rivonia Trial (Gordimer donated her Nobel Prize money to the Congress of South African Writers).
Many Jewish anti-apartheid activists were the target of state security force violence: Ruth First was assassinated; Albie Sachs (now a Judge on our Constitutional Court) lost an eye and an arm. Rowley Arenstein was exiled for thirty-three years. Arthur Goldreich was arrested as a political prisoner but eventually escaped. Joe Slovo, longtime leader of the South African Communist Party, served on the ANC’s National Executive Committee, as did Ray Simons, Gill Marcus and Raymond Suttner. Ronnie Kasrils was head of intelligence for the ANC’s military wing (and is now our Minister of National Intelligence).
Jews also played a significant role in providing humanitarian assistance for black communities. Ina Perlman founded “Operation Hunger”, an organization that reached two million South African blacks. The list is endless.
Many Jews objected to enlistment in the South African Defence Force and the Border War. Jonathon Handler was one of a group of 15 conscientious objectors to make public their resistance to war in the townships shortly before the End Conscription Campaign (founded by Jew David Bruce) was detained and subsequently banned.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Z-Man wrote:
http://www.counterpunch.com/cook08162006.html
Let’s see - some Islamist apologetic is angry because the media won’t show certain images out of concern for taste - which is nothing new to mainstream media - and this somehow justifies deliberate fabrication of photo news journalism?
Setting aside this polemic - which has the audacity to suggest that Hezbollah doesn’t really conduct operations from among the citizenry for cruel advantage - the problem of employees of independent news agencies like Reuters and the Associated Press intentionally doctoring images in order to advance propaganda is no mere distraction. It is a problem about the basic role of journalism, no matter what your politics.
Oh, but even better, the author is a published author on al-Jazeera, so I suspect a discussion with the guy about the value of objective journalism is a wasted effort anyway.[/quote]
The only point I am making is that some altered photographs should not cast doubt that there were over a thousand civilians killed in Lebanon. AP and Reuters are idiots for not checking their sources and for buying and publishing faked photographs.
[quote]coolexec wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
coolexec wrote:
Z-Man wrote:
http://www.counterpunch.com/cook08162006.html
Z-Man, I’m surprised that you haven’t yet quoted from ‘Der Volkische Beobachter’. I have no doubt that you would have found it both authoritative and enlightening. Do you still keep a pile of back issues of Der Sturmer under your bed? Julius Streicher was a journalist whose opinions, style and philosophy must be really close to your heart.
Do you spend all of your time trawling anti-Semitic websites or unraveling conspiracies?
God, you must miss the apartheid-regime.
Tell me, were you able to kill a lot of blacks?
First, as nice of you as it may be, I prefer not to be addressed as “God.”
Second, why did you assume that I am not black? Are you so patronising and paternalistic in your outlook that you immediately assume that a person participating in a forum such as this cannot be a black African? Operating within your neo-Colonial paradigm you simply assume that blacks in Africa live in mud huts and swat flies, whilst whites indulge in bodybuilding and surf the Internet.
Third, South Africans are uniquely placed to take a moral stand on international issues. We have looked into the abyss - and stepped back from the edge. We averted Civil War and today have the world?s finest Constitution. Whilst your friends in Iran are frantically trying to build a nuclear bomb, South Africa unilaterally disarmed, dismantled and disposed of its nuclear arsenal.
Finally, I need to point out why I feel so strongly about anti-Semitism. I worked with countless Jews during the worst days of apartheid. The role that Jews played in our ‘Struggle’ cannot be overemphasised. I find the anti-Semitic ravings on this forum bizarre and feel compelled to respond to them.
Though Jews accounted for only about 2% of South Africa’s white population and 0.25% of South Africa’s total population, Jews (at considerable personal risk) played notable roles in the anti-apartheid movement. This was clearly against their own class interests. Some Muslims played an important role in the Struggle, but basically in later years. The difference is Muslims were not white ? they were, themselves, victims of apartheid. There was, therefore, a degree of self-interest in Muslim opposition to apartheid. Jews fought apartheid despite the fact that they could have sat back, as whites, and enjoyed its spoils.
For example, when 156 anti-apartheid political leaders were arrested in December 1956, more than half of the whites arrested were Jewish. They were charged with high treason resulting in the Treason Trial which lasted from 1956-1960. And, all of the whites initially charged in the 1963 Rivonia Trial were Jewish.
The accused in the seminal Rivonia Trial were: Nelson Mandela, Walter Sisulu, Govan Mbeki (father of Thabo Mbeki, now President of South Africa), Raymond Mhlaba, Elias Motsoaledi, Ahmed Kathrada, Denis Goldberg (Jew), Andrew Mlangeni, Walter Mkwayi, Lionel “Rusty” Bernstein (Jew), Harold Wolpe (Jew) and James Kantor (Jew). Our ‘Rivonia Trialists’ have a place in history not dissimilar to those who signed the US Declaration of Independence. During the Rivonia Trial, Jewish lawyer Arthur Chaskalson (with Isie Maisels ? another Jew) was Mandela’s defense counsel. In that trial, Dennis Goldberg, leader of the Congress of Democrats, was sentenced to life in prison along with Mandela and other ANC leaders. In 1979, Chaskalson established the Legal Resources Center (with which I have been deeply involved), an organization dedicated to the pursuit of justice and human rights in South Africa. Chaskalson (with his colleague Geoff Budlender - another friend and Jew) challenged the implementation of apartheid laws, provided legal services, and trained paralegal personnel to help blacks. When Mandela came to power he appointed Chaskalson as President of the Constitutional Court of South Africa and later as Chief Justice of South Africa.
Jewish politicians like Helen Suzman, who single-handedly kept the flame of Parliamentary Opposition burning for decades, attempted to stop the abuse of black political prisoners. Writer Nadine Gordimer helped edit Mandela’s speech in his defense at the Rivonia Trial (Gordimer donated her Nobel Prize money to the Congress of South African Writers).
Many Jewish anti-apartheid activists were the target of state security force violence: Ruth First was assassinated; Albie Sachs (now a Judge on our Constitutional Court) lost an eye and an arm. Rowley Arenstein was exiled for thirty-three years. Arthur Goldreich was arrested as a political prisoner but eventually escaped. Joe Slovo, longtime leader of the South African Communist Party, served on the ANC’s National Executive Committee, as did Ray Simons, Gill Marcus and Raymond Suttner. Ronnie Kasrils was head of intelligence for the ANC’s military wing (and is now our Minister of National Intelligence).
Jews also played a significant role in providing humanitarian assistance for black communities. Ina Perlman founded “Operation Hunger”, an organization that reached two million South African blacks. The list is endless.
Many Jews objected to enlistment in the South African Defence Force and the Border War. Jonathon Handler was one of a group of 15 conscientious objectors to make public their resistance to war in the townships shortly before the End Conscription Campaign (founded by Jew David Bruce) was detained and subsequently banned.
[/quote]
You asume a lot of thinks about other people. And when I’m nice enough to return the favor, you get all nasty on me.
Now I’m confused.
Also, why don’t you mention the fine connections the Apartheidsregime had with Israel?
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
coolexec wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
coolexec wrote:
Z-Man wrote:
http://www.counterpunch.com/cook08162006.html
Z-Man, I’m surprised that you haven’t yet quoted from ‘Der Volkische Beobachter’. I have no doubt that you would have found it both authoritative and enlightening. Do you still keep a pile of back issues of Der Sturmer under your bed? Julius Streicher was a journalist whose opinions, style and philosophy must be really close to your heart.
Do you spend all of your time trawling anti-Semitic websites or unraveling conspiracies?
God, you must miss the apartheid-regime.
Tell me, were you able to kill a lot of blacks?
First, as nice of you as it may be, I prefer not to be addressed as “God.”
Second, why did you assume that I am not black? Are you so patronising and paternalistic in your outlook that you immediately assume that a person participating in a forum such as this cannot be a black African? Operating within your neo-Colonial paradigm you simply assume that blacks in Africa live in mud huts and swat flies, whilst whites indulge in bodybuilding and surf the Internet.
Third, South Africans are uniquely placed to take a moral stand on international issues. We have looked into the abyss - and stepped back from the edge. We averted Civil War and today have the world?s finest Constitution. Whilst your friends in Iran are frantically trying to build a nuclear bomb, South Africa unilaterally disarmed, dismantled and disposed of its nuclear arsenal.
Finally, I need to point out why I feel so strongly about anti-Semitism. I worked with countless Jews during the worst days of apartheid. The role that Jews played in our ‘Struggle’ cannot be overemphasised. I find the anti-Semitic ravings on this forum bizarre and feel compelled to respond to them.
Though Jews accounted for only about 2% of South Africa’s white population and 0.25% of South Africa’s total population, Jews (at considerable personal risk) played notable roles in the anti-apartheid movement. This was clearly against their own class interests. Some Muslims played an important role in the Struggle, but basically in later years. The difference is Muslims were not white ? they were, themselves, victims of apartheid. There was, therefore, a degree of self-interest in Muslim opposition to apartheid. Jews fought apartheid despite the fact that they could have sat back, as whites, and enjoyed its spoils.
For example, when 156 anti-apartheid political leaders were arrested in December 1956, more than half of the whites arrested were Jewish. They were charged with high treason resulting in the Treason Trial which lasted from 1956-1960. And, all of the whites initially charged in the 1963 Rivonia Trial were Jewish.
The accused in the seminal Rivonia Trial were: Nelson Mandela, Walter Sisulu, Govan Mbeki (father of Thabo Mbeki, now President of South Africa), Raymond Mhlaba, Elias Motsoaledi, Ahmed Kathrada, Denis Goldberg (Jew), Andrew Mlangeni, Walter Mkwayi, Lionel “Rusty” Bernstein (Jew), Harold Wolpe (Jew) and James Kantor (Jew). Our ‘Rivonia Trialists’ have a place in history not dissimilar to those who signed the US Declaration of Independence. During the Rivonia Trial, Jewish lawyer Arthur Chaskalson (with Isie Maisels ? another Jew) was Mandela’s defense counsel. In that trial, Dennis Goldberg, leader of the Congress of Democrats, was sentenced to life in prison along with Mandela and other ANC leaders. In 1979, Chaskalson established the Legal Resources Center (with which I have been deeply involved), an organization dedicated to the pursuit of justice and human rights in South Africa. Chaskalson (with his colleague Geoff Budlender - another friend and Jew) challenged the implementation of apartheid laws, provided legal services, and trained paralegal personnel to help blacks. When Mandela came to power he appointed Chaskalson as President of the Constitutional Court of South Africa and later as Chief Justice of South Africa.
Jewish politicians like Helen Suzman, who single-handedly kept the flame of Parliamentary Opposition burning for decades, attempted to stop the abuse of black political prisoners. Writer Nadine Gordimer helped edit Mandela’s speech in his defense at the Rivonia Trial (Gordimer donated her Nobel Prize money to the Congress of South African Writers).
Many Jewish anti-apartheid activists were the target of state security force violence: Ruth First was assassinated; Albie Sachs (now a Judge on our Constitutional Court) lost an eye and an arm. Rowley Arenstein was exiled for thirty-three years. Arthur Goldreich was arrested as a political prisoner but eventually escaped. Joe Slovo, longtime leader of the South African Communist Party, served on the ANC’s National Executive Committee, as did Ray Simons, Gill Marcus and Raymond Suttner. Ronnie Kasrils was head of intelligence for the ANC’s military wing (and is now our Minister of National Intelligence).
Jews also played a significant role in providing humanitarian assistance for black communities. Ina Perlman founded “Operation Hunger”, an organization that reached two million South African blacks. The list is endless.
Many Jews objected to enlistment in the South African Defence Force and the Border War. Jonathon Handler was one of a group of 15 conscientious objectors to make public their resistance to war in the townships shortly before the End Conscription Campaign (founded by Jew David Bruce) was detained and subsequently banned.
You asume a lot of thinks about other people. And when I’m nice enough to return the favor, you get all nasty on me.
Now I’m confused.
Also, why don’t you mention the fine connections the Apartheidsregime had with Israel?[/quote]
I have no doubt that you are easily confused Wreckless.
Yes, the apartheid regime had links with Israel - as does the post-apartheid government. Israel had, and has, an Embassy here.
The apartheid regime also had close links with Belgium. In fact, the guns used to suppress the masses were Belgian made FNs. Lest I forget - the Rhodesian security forces were also supplied by your heroic country Wreckless. Guess where your ‘surplus’ military supplies ended up?
I shan’t carry on too much longer, but Belgium was a cosy collaborator with the apartheid regime. Where do you think the diamonds that are an important part of your economy came from? The diamond mines south of Brussels? Ghent’s famous mines? And the continued exploitation of the Congo … in collaboration with whom? Who provided the security?
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Apologies is someone has posted this elsewhere. A quick clip on media presentation and lack of objectivity w/r/t the Lebanon war.
Interestingly, the new agencies in question are newswire groups that act as journalists for networks - as in, all the networks buy up their materials for publication, not just the ones you don’t like.
http://www.aish.com/movies/PhotoFraud.asp[/quote]
Interesting stuff, and hardly surprising. Nothing has changed from the days of Mark Twain. Hezbollah seems to utilize the constant need for news-pulp better than Israel at the moment. By the way, did you notice the ominous humming sounds in the background?
[quote]coolexec wrote:
…
I have no doubt that you are easily confused Wreckless.
Yes, the apartheid regime had links with Israel - as does the post-apartheid government. Israel had, and has, an Embassy here.
The apartheid regime also had close links with Belgium. In fact, the guns used to suppress the masses were Belgian made FNs. Lest I forget - the Rhodesian security forces were also supplied by your heroic country Wreckless. Guess where your ‘surplus’ military supplies ended up?
I shan’t carry on too much longer, but Belgium was a cosy collaborator with the apartheid regime. Where do you think the diamonds that are an important part of your economy came from? The diamond mines south of Brussels? Ghent’s famous mines? And the continued exploitation of the Congo … in collaboration with whom? Who provided the security?[/quote]
I have to admit, you have a point there. Some Flamish politicians played a dirty role then. They insisted on supporting their brothers, the South-African boers.
If you suffered under apartheid like you claim you did, you sure seem to support the apartheid regime in Israel.