This is something you wrote in another post way back:
“The times when it would seem to make more sense for us lesser mortals to supplement with insulin are during low GI ‘re-feed’ sessions, when you can force glycogen into depleted muscles without risk of any storage of excess carbs as fat.”
Please would you explain your reasoning behind this statement? If anyone else has any thoughts please also let me know. Why would injected insulin mean the hormone would not act on fat cells?
I appreciate people should do their own research on this subject but I simply can’t find any posts that have any scientific reasoning behind them.
For the record, before any talk of propellar hats, I am a type 1 diabetic and inject insulin every day. I am well practiced in the ways of managing blood sugar levels and am simply looking for sound reasoning why non-diabetics supplement with insulin and why this is any different to the endogenous production of insulin in healthy males.[/quote]
BBB would be the person i turn to for any advice on Slin usage - so no problem there.
The thing is Nickk, is that a while back - a few of the Insulin using ‘bodybuilders’ here had decided it was more ethical to not get into the details of pro-slin usage - as we seem to have a high incidence of naive newbs here, who for one reason or another are highly likely to read such posts and shoot up a ‘few ml’ of thier brothers Insulin, killing them within the hour of course.
If a newb decides to shoot test or deca with little prior knowledge, they would be hard pressed to kill themselves - Insulin is different in that regard, hence BBB’s hesitation to be dragged into the subject.
I will PM you with my version of the answer to your question: “What is the difference between exo and endo slin?”
I’ve become unaccustomed to BBB;s words of wisdom. I also agree with Brook’s statement. A random ass mL of test, EQ, deca, etc will not do as much damage if not cause death like a couple IUs of slin.
its one off those things you have to decide yourself on ive known lads use it and put 7lbs a week on when stacked with HGH. however ive also heard enough scare storys about the stuff.
Its exactly posts like this why is isnt mentioned - you think this is an accurate representation of slin? You ever used it? Maybe you should keep your second or third-hand opinions to yourself.
And to quash your statement, it isnt JUST the slin which produces gains… if one was to inject X iu of slin over X weeks - with no AAS or GH, they will get little other than pumps and fat.
This conversation has been taken to the PM’s for those who are actually interested in learning and not necessarily in using - lets leave it at that shall we.
FWIW, if anyone wants any pointers in the right direction of information, they are welcome to PM me and we can chat about it - but lets avoid ‘bigging it up’ (especially with no knowledge or evidence) on the boards.
[quote]crazymatt wrote:
put 7lbs a week on when stacked with HGH.
[/quote]
To add to my last post which isnt showing - i can promise you that a gain of 7lbs in one week will be a vast majority of fat and glycogen (water-weight basically).
It is highly unlikely if not impossible to gain more than 2-3lbs of dry tissue in a week, and this is impossible to repeat over a number of weeks - no matter if every AAS, Peptide, Hormone or supplement is used.
Shit, even WITH AAS it is a fucking good year to gain 50lbs - That averages out at 1lb a week…
well how much is muscle, how much is fat and how much is water is another story. I would assume that the effects off the stuff would taper off once you got used to it like with anything.
no Ive not used the stuff, but i do know people that have not that they like to admit to it as its somewhat of a taboo subject even amongst people that will openly admit to using steroids. I should say though that the lads i know that have used it are already competitive bodybuilders and have years on years of experience of taking other stuff.
given what Ive read about the stuff on various forums such as muscletalk and greatmanjohn its the most anabolic hormone known to man hence id assume it is stronger than AAS. People tend to run it for a maximum off 4 weeks, injecting post workout then getting some fast release carbs straight after and some more carbs 2 hours later. You have a 4 hour window in which you will probably feel very lethargic but if you go to sleep you most probably won’t wake up. If you don’t get enough carbs you can go into insulin coma which can kill you. If you have to much carbs it kill you. I don’t know exactly how much you should be getting its worked out depending how many IU’s off slin you take.
It is highly unlikely if not impossible to gain more than 2-3lbs of dry tissue in a week, and this is impossible to repeat over a number of weeks [/quote]
You may be interested then in Kevin Levrone’s just-started performance art work of showing his progress in putting on something like 40 lb of what he says will be muscle and I expect he’s right, in 8 weeks. There’s a link posted in the bb’ing forum.
In fact, knowing his track record, I wouldn’t be surprised if he gains 40 lb weight while leaning up. So even subtracting out for added glycogen and glycogen-associated water it may well be very nearly or even actually 5 lb real muscle per week.
True it is regains in his case.
And yes, no one will do that for 52 weeks straight or anything remotely like that, no matter what.
However even someone presently at his peak can well exceed 2-3 lb of genuine LBM in a week when the stars are right. Not as an ongoing thing, or a frequent occasion, but as a burst.
I think you’re both right. Brook would probably say some who blows up on test and dbol and packs on 12lbs in the first 3 weeks in not gaining dry tissue. But if the bodyfat % does not change or even goes down than it can rightly be called lean gains.
I do absolutely concur on the ease of regaining. Last August I ended a test tren dbol cycle in the mid 240’s by October I was around 235. I then didnt really train much at all for the next 6 months [another story entirely]. April 13 I joined a gym and started lifting again. April 13th I was 213lbs.
By May 4th I was up to 225. I also started 1G of TE a week that day and the following week adding in 400mg of TRE. As of today Im in the mid 230’s.
Strength levels were embarrassing. In August I was squatting 700+ and raw 2 board pressing in the mid 400’s. My first week in the gym squat was in the 300’s and I did one rep at 315 off my 2 board. Six weeks later squat is well over 500 now and 2 board max is upper 300’s.
I make a distinction between what I call (I haven’t proven that’s what it is, but I think it is) weight from added glycogen and glycogen-associated water that the body can hold when using steroids, and LBM gains beyond that.
The first, while technically LBM and it will be measured as such, is almost immediately reversible on androgen levels returning to normal and doesn’t represent having more contractile protein. It probably enhances work capacity but does not increase strength so much.
The latter is not nearly so quickly reversible and does represent more “real muscle,” rather than the same muscle being more filled with glycogen and water. And pound for pound this type of LBM adds much more strength.
In my own case, the glycogen and glycogen-associated water weight, or what I attribute to that, is consistently 9 lb.
So in your example, if the above person were like me in that regard, his 12 lb of scale weight would only represent 3 lb of “real” LBM gain, assuming no change in bodyfat, same amount of food and waste in system, and same degree of hydration.
It is highly unlikely if not impossible to gain more than 2-3lbs of dry tissue in a week, and this is impossible to repeat over a number of weeks
You may be interested then in Kevin Levrone’s just-started performance art work of showing his progress in putting on something like 40 lb of what he says will be muscle and I expect he’s right, in 8 weeks. There’s a link posted in the bb’ing forum.
In fact, knowing his track record, I wouldn’t be surprised if he gains 40 lb weight while leaning up. So even subtracting out for added glycogen and glycogen-associated water it may well be very nearly or even actually 5 lb real muscle per week.
True it is regains in his case.
And yes, no one will do that for 52 weeks straight or anything remotely like that, no matter what.
However even someone presently at his peak can well exceed 2-3 lb of genuine LBM in a week when the stars are right. Not as an ongoing thing, or a frequent occasion, but as a burst.
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I would be interested to look at that - and i am aware of Levrone’s crazy physique changes… and while you pointed out that his are for the major majority re-gains, he is also a minority in his ability to change his physique DRAMATICALLY.
I once saw a video of some (terribly poor) small-time acting he did off-season, and he was like a raisin… deflated and ugly. But he will build UPTO a show and be a top level olympia athlete… he is one in a million - thats for sure.
Maybe my statement ‘impossible’ was a little hard headed in light of that…
Leverone is really an exception though not a rule. I still remember that video I saw of him in his pink trunks weighing maybe 200lbs and acting like a total nut job fag-douche. Is that still on youtube
[quote]saps wrote:
Leverone is really an exception though not a rule. I still remember that video I saw of him in his pink trunks weighing maybe 200lbs and acting like a total nut job fag-douche. Is that still on youtube
Yes it is. Thank God he got serious again
[/quote]
THATS the one… that to me is against what i see bodybuilding as. I mean JUST training and dieting for a show… rather than year round PEAKING for shows… it is a lifestyle for most (if not everyone else) - not just something you do for a few weeks prior.
I can only assume he has learnt that he can rely on re-gains once he has built up to that size once before… i ASSUME he has been training since 18 for the past 15-20 years like the rest of olympia pros…
surely… ;/
well he leaned down quite a bit when he was acting. I think he was more like 220-225-ish the past several years. Maybe leaned down isnt the right word either. Maybe stopped taking 3-5grams of aas is a better way to say it.
