Have you guys used chocomine? Is it smoother than caffeine? And where do you buy it? I checked in a lot of places, but they are all out of stock. Has it been discontinued or something?
I am interested in this also. I was checking this stuff out after Shelby Starnes recommended it. I am always looking for a wake up call, what with 2 little ones to look after and late working hours to contend with by brain ceases to function on any acceptable level anymore lol
I have not tried it but I've examined the product closely.
I agree with Shelby Starnes that the useful dosage is far beyond that which is recommended by the seller.
It is quite pricey at that usage level.
So far as I can tell, it does nothing but refine out various things from a quality cocoa product, that need not be refined out.
A quality non-alkalinized, non-roasted cocoa is I think better and certainly more cost-effective.
Chocamine is mostly an expensive source of theobromine.
Im in the same boat as you with new twins, and long work hours. Im currently in a cutting phase and wanted to try it out but couldn't find it anywhere on line. So I just assumed straight unsweetened unrefined real cocao like Bill Roberts said would be the same. Only 3 gms carbs per tablespoon and 2 are from fiber. Been dumping it in my coffee with mint green tea and sometimes stevia. Not too bad drinking it straight up either.
It's all go isn't it!
I am gong to look into a good quality cocoa powder. Thanks for the inspiration!
Thanks for the clarification.
I just checked my cupboards and I have a good quality organic cocoa powder (I totally forgot about it, which backs up my last statement about my deflated brain mass lol). It contains Potassium Carbonate, which I assume is the alkalizer you are talking about. What exactly would this do to the effectiveness of the product? The product itself is 97% cocoa.
You will still get the theobromine, but the epicatechin content is lost.
I would use the cocoa you already have, as it's hardly worthless, but next time get, for example, Hershey's Natural Unsweetened. It's easily available, and is gently processed. I am sure there are other good brands as well.
Bill, I find this very interesting and appreciate your expertise.
What would be a good sample starting dosage of the Hershey's Natural Unsweetened to get the increased energy benefits, for a 200lb male?
Shelby has a product called cognitrop with chocamine. I'd check it out
If using only the cocoa, a double serving (two tablespoons, 10 g) is reasonable. In the case of that particular Hershey's product, that is somewhat over 200 mg.
In combination with a decent amount of coffee, even a single serving of the cocoa gives a really nice improvement, as personal opinion.
As an example of what I personally mean by a decent amount of coffee, my wife uses 4 tablespoons of Racetrac Molten Java (I picked this stuff out) yielding 2 cups.
It would take 2 grams of Chocamine, approximately, to equal the 2 tablespoons of cocoa for theobromine content.
Of course one may well be able to just buy theobromine. I have a jar of it, myself, but I don't know if it's available retail. Never looked into it.
I am not sure I understand. Shelby Starnes is the one who recommended using chocamine in a recent article. http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/advanced_appetite_suppression What am I missing?
I have tried cocoa many times, but it does not give me any extra energy. Shelby Starnes says that chocamine provides a smooth, long-lasting buzz, similar to an amphetamine but without any harsh side effects. That is what I want, but I have never experienced anything like that from cocoa.
I'll start with the 10g and see where it takes me.
I'll start with the 10g and see where it takes me.
Lots of great info Bill, thanks very much!
Coincidentally this is the same exact one I use but the dark version.
Read Shelby's log over at Elitefts.com which is sponsored by Biotest. He gives useful doseages and where it can be found. And despite what anyone says it is very cheap. Few cents per dose.
Where did Shelby recommend this high dosage. On his log at EFS he recommended a dose of 1/4tsp for his Power Mocha recipe, which is awesome by the way. This dose is very affordable.
It's possible I misinterpreted, so let's see.
He wrote that he uses up to 1/2 teaspoon.
The dose recommended by the company is 500 mg.
So the question then is, how does 1/2 tsp compare to 500 mg?
Usually I figure a teaspoon of a typical supplement powder as being probably about 5 grams but of course this depends on density, and I don't know the density of Chocamine.
So now, to be accurate I need to find how teaspoons and milligrams relate to each other for Chocamine.
I didn't find the label online anywhere but I found a post saying that according to the label, one tsp is 1.2 grams. Let's hope that that is accurate, and work with it to see where we get.
So, if correct which seems likely, then the product is quite fluffy and you are correct, his dose matches up with the manufacturer's recommendation.
In which case the amount of theobromine is much less than I'd recommend and so I don't agree with him on dosage.
500 mg is only 60 mg of theobromine. That is very little. The half-teaspoon would be only slightly more than this, and the quarter teaspoon obviously much less still. I am glad that this is effective for you, but it is ineffective for me and it corresponds roughly to a fraction of a cup of cocoa.
I believed it was correct that Chocamine is an expensive source of theobromine, relative to other possibilities. Looking at retail price, one discounted price for 250 g of Chocamine is $35.99. That contains 30 g of theobromine. So, over one dollar per gram.
On Amazon, six 8-ounce cans of Hershey's Natural Unsweetened Cocoa, totalling about 1360 g, is $39.99.
I don't recall absolutely precisely but the cocoa has about 110 mg of theobromine per 5 g. So that makes about 30 grams of theobromine for the price.
So, it turns out that retail price-wise, I stand corrected. The price is the same as the cocoa. I don't think it provides anything the cocoa doesn't, and it does refine out a very valuable ingredient, epicatechin.
In terms of manufacturing cost -- including Chocamine as an ingredient as a source of theobromine, compared to using theobromine itself -- it's a pricey source of theobromine.
For example we considered using theobromine in HOT-ROX. I would have used 200 mg had we done it. That would correspond to 1.67 g of Chocamine.
So, assuming that the theobromine contributed as much to retail price as it does in the case of the Chocamine product, that would have come out to about 20 cents per serving. For a 30 day supply of HOT-ROX, that would have added twelve dollars to the sale price of a bottle.
I don't recall what our actual cost for adding theobromine would have been but it was drastically, extremely below that. The only reason we didn't do it was Tim didn't find the "feel" as good as what we actually went with and have continued to go with. Price wasn't a barrier.
That was the context in which I was viewing Chocamine as an expensive source of theobromine, because I had looked into the bulk cost of Chocamine in the event we might want to use it, and was not happy at finding the epicatechin had been refined out and that the bulk price made it an impractically-expensive source of theobromine, for products where theobromine is merely an added minor ingredient.
Thank you for bringing out these points: I was, unintentionally, inaccurate it turns out.
The feel difference is that theobromine is mellower, whereas HOT-ROX is from a hardcore, energy-driven mindset.
What is the name of the company? I have not seen 500 mg as being a recommended dose. Where have you seen this dose recommendation? Thanks.