Anyone Thought About Leaving the US?

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]belligerent wrote:
Thinking ahead, I really don’t wanna be here when the USD collapses. Dentists and doctors won’t even be able to find work in this shithole in five years. I’m thinking about trying to find a job abroad when I graduate - Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Norway, Switzerland, and The Netherlands are attractive.

Asia would be too much of a culture shock for me, but are probably the best choices from a purely economic perspective. I would hate to leave but I think this place is pretty much facing a worst case scenario at this point. It’s going to be miserable. Anyone else tempted to up and leave?[/quote]

There is an old saying that goes “the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence”. The US is still the best. The US is the one country that everyone else in the world needs. If the US economy goes down it is going to take everyone else with it. Look at China. The Chinese economy is booming but without a massive trade deficit with the US to support growth that will all come to a screeching halt. Plus a lot of the economic output of other Asian nations is tied to Chinese trade with the US.

Going through the rest of your list you are dreaming. Canada is over run by liberals so a lot of the freedom and liberty that we take for granted here is evaporating. The economy is tied to the US. Western Canada is booming because the oils sand deposits there are supplying more of the US imported oil needs than any other country. You can forget about Canada.

You can forget about getting into New Zealand. When the global economic downturn hit them their government adopted a policy of putting New Zealanders first. So they have stopped taking in immigrants, been revoking work visas and telling people who aren’t working they have to go home.

Australia is very dependent upon China which means Australia is very dependent upon the US.

Norway is nice but it only has one major city, Oslo. Oslo is nice but, due to uncontrolled third world immigration Oslo is rapidly deteriorating into a third world muslim ghetto with skyrocketing crime rates.

Friday, January 12, 2007

This article start talking about immigrants, but then moves directly to the “real” topic - the non-Western immigrants. Altogether, there are 23% immigrants in Oslo.

The number of immigrants in Oslo has increased by 40 percent over the past five years, and the capital is an increasingly popular destination for Norway’s new residents.

Seven suburban city districts have a population segment of over 20 percent of people who come from a non-Western background according to city statistics, and it is this group that is growing most quickly in the capital, newspaper Dagsavisen reports.

The Swiss are starting to put a brake on immigration you may not be able to live there.

The Netherlands used to be nice, but the problem with the Dutch is they are a bunch of pot smoking hippies who are so ridiculously liberal that they have no clue how to deal with the controlled growth of an islamist population in their midst that is going to take over and change the culture into something resembling Saudi Arabia.

22

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]belligerent wrote:
Thinking ahead, I really don’t wanna be here when the USD collapses. Dentists and doctors won’t even be able to find work in this shithole in five years. I’m thinking about trying to find a job abroad when I graduate - Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Norway, Switzerland, and The Netherlands are attractive.

Asia would be too much of a culture shock for me, but are probably the best choices from a purely economic perspective. I would hate to leave but I think this place is pretty much facing a worst case scenario at this point. It’s going to be miserable. Anyone else tempted to up and leave?[/quote]

The trouble with that idea is that, not being a citizen, no one will care about you. They’ll refuse you health care unless you have a bucket of money. I know you probably don’t care about that, but it is there.

I’d choose Canada, especially the West. Its beautiful and there are a lot fewer libs who’ll try to rob you. Their currency is stronger too so things might not be as bad there.
[/quote]

Actually you would get healthcare in most of Europe, Mexico, Canada or Cuba. Not sure about Oz or NZ.[/quote]

Cock your silly ass gave me a good laugh with that. Healthcare in most of those places you mentioned is of such a poor standard that you are almost better off not going to see a doctor.

I’ve seen plenty of accounts of people who have been butchered in Mexico.

In Cuba you can see a doctor YOU have to provide the medical supplies that he uses to treat you with.

Canadians who can afford it come to the US to get their medical care.

Europe is a real mixed bag. If you have money you might have the ability to get better care, but in some countries the standards of training medical staff can be very poor. Plus the new EU dictat on working hours limiting people to a maximum of 48 hours a week is already degrading medical care. Because of it there is a reduced availability of doctors, so it is harder to get to see a doctor. It is impeding the training of new doctors because the limit on their working hours means they are not getting as much experience during their internship after they graduate from medical school.

Then there is other stupidity like the human rights act allowing unqualified people to practice medicine. For example in Britain the human rights laws there prohibit requiring foreign trained nurses sit through the rigorous competence exams that British nurses are required to go through.

23

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
billigerent, all I am saying is I am not going to run away.

edit – yes, I have read that book.[/quote]

Sorry I meant to quote someone else’s post.

24

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The more I think about the more pissed off I get. Why should we leave?

We should round up all the no-good, busybody, sociopath power-mongers and send them to Canada.

I’m not fucking leaving.

FUCK. THAT. SHIT!![/quote]

You sound like Castro. :wink:

25

I think the saying goes " Don’t let the door hit you in the ass " :slight_smile: You may even ask for donations , you may be surprised who donates :slight_smile:

26

[quote]belligerent wrote:
Thinking ahead, I really don’t wanna be here when the USD collapses. [/quote]

You have plenty of time (at least 5 years). The USD is just finishing its correction from its big move off the bottom and has a very big run ahead.

The Euro is the currency that is about to fall off a cliff.

Short the market for a while, pay off debt, and put away cash in a safe, A rated bank (see The Street.com for a list of these). Ride out the coming storm, and when every thing hits rock bottom in five or six years start buying undeveloped real estate, gold, and select commodities in order to take advantage of the following inflation/hyperinflation.

Remember, most of the worlds debt in denominated in US dollars. Deflation is coming, and the world will be liquidating assets and converting them to dollars, in order to meet obligations.
They will sell stocks, gold, real estate, you name it. The dollar will be king for a while.

27

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:

[quote]jawara wrote:
I can understand why people would want to leave, BUT our country won’t get any better if all the good, hard working people become expats. I don’t wanna get too conspiracy theory on you guys, but I think if America falls their won’t be any place left on earth that you would want to live in. Just my 2 cents.[/quote]

I agree that if the USA fails, no place will be unaffected. But I also don’t believe the USA will completely collapse. I just the USA heading in a direction opposite of what I believe. Maybe if all the hard working people became expats, they would finally get the hint.

I’ve been thinking of moving to Hong Kong. No sales tax. No VAT. No capital gains tax. Highest income tax bracket is %20.[/quote]

I too have been looking at Hong Kong.

28

[quote]JEATON wrote:

[quote]belligerent wrote:
Thinking ahead, I really don’t wanna be here when the USD collapses. [/quote]

You have plenty of time (at least 5 years). The USD is just finishing its correction from its big move off the bottom and has a very big run ahead.

The Euro is the currency that is about to fall off a cliff.

Short the market for a while, pay off debt, and put away cash in a safe, A rated bank (see The Street.com for a list of these). Ride out the coming storm, and when every thing hits rock bottom in five or six years start buying undeveloped real estate, gold, and select commodities in order to take advantage of the following inflation/hyperinflation.

Remember, most of the worlds debt in denominated in US dollars. Deflation is coming, and the world will be liquidating assets and converting them to dollars, in order to meet obligations.
They will sell stocks, gold, real estate, you name it. The dollar will be king for a while.
[/quote]

Don’t buy too much into the small dollar rally thats going on, its just the boucne back from hitting the 80 level. With news that the FED is going to start pumping money in again the dollar is still a bad bet. I would say if anything has a strong rally coming it would be the euro.

29

[quote]belligerent wrote:
Thinking ahead, I really don’t wanna be here when the USD collapses. Dentists and doctors won’t even be able to find work in this shithole in five years. I’m thinking about trying to find a job abroad when I graduate - Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Norway, Switzerland, and The Netherlands are attractive.

Asia would be too much of a culture shock for me, but are probably the best choices from a purely economic perspective. I would hate to leave but I think this place is pretty much facing a worst case scenario at this point. It’s going to be miserable. Anyone else tempted to up and leave?[/quote]

Yeah, good luck. For one thing, not so sure that all of those places are economically stable in their own right. Second, I don’t see the USD actually “collapsing.” Third, if the U.S. really does ‘fall apart,’ it will sent the entire world into a global economic tailspin, the likes of which have not breen seen since the Great Depression.

30

[quote]belligerent wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The more I think about the more pissed off I get. Why should we leave?

We should round up all the no-good, busybody, sociopath power-mongers and send them to Canada.

I’m not fucking leaving.

FUCK. THAT. SHIT!![/quote]

In his book “The Little Book fo Bull Moves in Bear Markets,” Peter Schiff discusses the pros and cons of foreign countries for investing as well as moving to. Here’s what he writes about Australia:

"Australia is a gem. It is a large, English-speaking nation with an economy as developed as any on earth, a low unemployment rate of 4.4 percent, and a projected 2008 GDP growth rate of 3.8 percent according to International Monetary Fund (IMF) estimates, more than double the IMF projection for other developed economies like Europe and Japan. Roughtly 60 percent of its exports go to Asia, making it relatively immune to the slowdown of the United States.

Australia is rich in natural resources, including raw materials like copper, lead, nickel, and zinc and agricultural commodities such as wheat. It has one of the world’s largest supplies of natural gas, enough to satisfy its energy needs for the rest of this centry, giving it a competitive advantage over Europe, Japan and the United States as the and other countries struggle with skyrocketing oil proces. While other countires are creating inflation, Australia’s central bank is raising interest rates to keep inflation in check.

In the 12 months ended in April 2008, the Australian dollar led the list of currencies appreaciating against the U.S. dollar whith a stunning gain of 19.4 percent. Add that to divident yields that have been in the range of 10 percent to 13 percent and higher.

Australia’s proximity to China positions it ideally as the major exporter of raw materials to a country where the demand will be insatiable."

Sounds pretty soild to me. Read up on the economic news for Australia and the news reports are far better than what is going on here. I’m seriously considering making a break for down under.[/quote]

And best of all, the local ladies love a American accent!

31

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:

[quote]jawara wrote:
I can understand why people would want to leave, BUT our country won’t get any better if all the good, hard working people become expats. I don’t wanna get too conspiracy theory on you guys, but I think if America falls their won’t be any place left on earth that you would want to live in. Just my 2 cents.[/quote]

I agree that if the USA fails, no place will be unaffected. But I also don’t believe the USA will completely collapse. I just the USA heading in a direction opposite of what I believe. Maybe if all the hard working people became expats, they would finally get the hint.

I’ve been thinking of moving to Hong Kong. No sales tax. No VAT. No capital gains tax. Highest income tax bracket is %20.[/quote]

I too have been looking at Hong Kong.[/quote]

The biggest problem with HK is that the HKD is pegged to the USD. To me, that’s not a big issue, since I’m not worried about the collapse of the USA, but if you are, then Hong Kong may be pointless.

32

[quote]belligerent wrote:
Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Norway, Switzerland, and The Netherlands are attractive. [/quote]

Well of course they are attractive - they all have universal health care, and a more sturdy social safety net than what we have. Imagine retiring in one of those countries… it would be pretty fucking sweet.

On the other hand, Republicans want to raise the age of retirement here to 70, and they want to get roll back health care reform to where we were before, and get rid of Social Security and Medicare.

33

[quote]Eisbaer8031 wrote:
You can forget New Zealand, Australia, Norway, Swiss, Netherlands and the rest of europe except maybe Lichtenstein but they probably got a dentist in one of there 3 villages. I used to live a while in NZ and australia and living currently in Germany. It cant be worse than here in the US.

Nearly every european country is facing the same Problems, in Germany we got high unemployment, the government says 3 million the truth is about that we got nearly 10 million, which are all recieving some kind of government unemployment money. Most of the people who are working have to do it for really low wages about 800 Euro a month, that might sound heaps but the lifestyle is really expensive.

In the Main cities like Berlin you got no go areas where all the “refugees” living, even the police isnt going in those areas. In France it is even worse you got major riots every couple month, where they burn your car, smash your house and shop. The government isnt working for the people anymore, but the people are the enemy of the government. Nobody agrees with the governments, but strangely they same parties are always getting back in the senate.

In NZ and Australia you are facing a major crime problem, especially NZ, about every third of the 4million citizens has been to prison or involved in a crime. Jobs are available, but only short term. If you are a doctor you probably have to go back to school anyway, to do your doctor again, has something to do with standards and policies.
Besides that you still got a few nice places, which are mostly in remote areas, which are only nice, when you are a tourist.

If you decide to come to Europe because of the healtcare, well you shouldnt. Health is quite expensive here, you have to pay about 200 Euro every month for the state insurance. If you work you cant refuse to pay it will be tranferred automatically from your wages. Besides it is a law to have health insurance. If you are your own boss the healthcare fee is about the double.

Most of the hospitals are from the 60s, they dont only look like that, the care is pretty much the same. If you want better care, you need extra insurance which isnt cheap.
I forgot, there are Doctors every where, i live in a small town with about 20 regular shops and nearly 20 doctors for only 8000 people.

[/quote]

And Obama wants us to become like the rest of the world…one neck ready for one leash.

34

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Eisbaer8031 wrote:
You can forget New Zealand, Australia, Norway, Swiss, Netherlands and the rest of europe except maybe Lichtenstein but they probably got a dentist in one of there 3 villages. I used to live a while in NZ and australia and living currently in Germany. It cant be worse than here in the US.

Nearly every european country is facing the same Problems, in Germany we got high unemployment, the government says 3 million the truth is about that we got nearly 10 million, which are all recieving some kind of government unemployment money. Most of the people who are working have to do it for really low wages about 800 Euro a month, that might sound heaps but the lifestyle is really expensive.

In the Main cities like Berlin you got no go areas where all the “refugees” living, even the police isnt going in those areas. In France it is even worse you got major riots every couple month, where they burn your car, smash your house and shop. The government isnt working for the people anymore, but the people are the enemy of the government. Nobody agrees with the governments, but strangely they same parties are always getting back in the senate.

In NZ and Australia you are facing a major crime problem, especially NZ, about every third of the 4million citizens has been to prison or involved in a crime. Jobs are available, but only short term. If you are a doctor you probably have to go back to school anyway, to do your doctor again, has something to do with standards and policies.
Besides that you still got a few nice places, which are mostly in remote areas, which are only nice, when you are a tourist.

If you decide to come to Europe because of the healtcare, well you shouldnt. Health is quite expensive here, you have to pay about 200 Euro every month for the state insurance. If you work you cant refuse to pay it will be tranferred automatically from your wages. Besides it is a law to have health insurance. If you are your own boss the healthcare fee is about the double.

Most of the hospitals are from the 60s, they dont only look like that, the care is pretty much the same. If you want better care, you need extra insurance which isnt cheap.
I forgot, there are Doctors every where, i live in a small town with about 20 regular shops and nearly 20 doctors for only 8000 people.

[/quote]

…i have to assume you’re trolling, because the amount of misinformation in this post is staggering. Nevertheless belligerent; i’d advise against you coming the western Europe simply because you won’t be insulated against the collapse of the dollar to the extent you’d like…

…i hate to agree with HH on this, but stay in North America; if everything does collaps you have ample opportunity to go Grizzly Adams and just rough it out…
[/quote]

I recently purchased 30 acres of land which is currently part of a larger orchard near Benton Harbor, Michigan. Leasing the land back to the farmer and renting the house out that’s on the land. The man farming it (known for many years) and I will split the $$$ 50/50. If things really go to hell here, my family and I can live on this land. I also have a vacation home in Colorado but it is not self-sustaining. (Land in MI is incredibly cheap too.)

I would advise anyone reading this, if you can afford it, to do likewise.

35

Even if I thought the US was “doomed”, I wouldn’t go to Hong Kong - it is within the sphere of influence of China, and that won’t be a good place to be should the Western superpower “collapse” (or simply be too weak to challenge China).

I haven’t seriously thought about leaving the US, but I wouldn’t rule it out if the standard of living continues to deteriorate in the way it has. But, I’m an optimist - I think we are going to see a correction, because too many sensible people who have a great stake in the continued success of the US (i.e., the middle class and both its present state of affairs and its expectations for their children) is about to clean out the Augean stables in Washington, DC.

The adults are getting serious about getting back into politics, and I believe that the Obama presidency will mark the nadir of the reign of such wild-eyed ideology in practical politics (in both parties). Common sense is coming back into style.

36

I don’t know if you’ve been keeping track of HK, but China pretty much said “Whatever you’re doing is working. Keep at it.” They even still have the borders up so the Mainlanders need visas to get in.

What do you think will happen to China if the US were “doomed” (which I don’t believe either)?

EDIT: I’m not an optimist though. I do see the US becoming a place where 50%+ income tax is the norm, where death tax is 70%+, same for capital gains, etc. I see less states’ rights; a more intrusive Federal government regulating every social aspect across the map.

37

I think it’s a little unrealistic to be talking about a complete collapse of the US, what does that even mean a great depression type scenario?
I would recommend Australia I have just returned to Europe after a 2 year expatriation there. Tax is high the top bracket is 50% but at least you can see where your money goes, great public services, clean streets, have lots of opportunity for well paid work, a subsidised health care system despite which most people have private healthcare and a great life style and climate.

38

If the US goes into an economic collapse it will take England, Canada, New Zealand etc with it. There is a huge correlation between these countries economically.

Additionally Australia would be a horrible choice as China’s export driven economy won’t need the Aussies resources if no one is buying their products.

Europe is sick as a whole and baring the break up of the Eu will fall even farther and faster than the US.

As for me, I love my country, I served it once, and I won’t be running away regardless of how bad things get.

39

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:

The biggest problem with HK is that the HKD is pegged to the USD. To me, that’s not a big issue, since I’m not worried about the collapse of the USA, but if you are, then Hong Kong may be pointless.[/quote]

They can always unpeg when things get bad.

40

If the US goes into an economic collapse it will take England, Canada, New Zealand etc with it. There is a huge correlation between these countries economically.

Additionally Australia would be a horrible choice as China’s export driven economy won’t need the Aussies resources if no one is buying their products.

Europe is sick as a whole and baring the break up of the Eu will fall even farther and faster than the US.

As for me, I love my country, I served it once, and I won’t be running away regardless of how bad things get.