T Nation

Anyone Started TRT with Subcutaneous Injections?


#1

So as the title suggests, has anyone started their TRT with their first injection being SubQ and continuing that way? I ask because, the labs look good for me now, and i am 6 weeks in. I haven't felt many effects of treatment other than some morning wood and back acne.

IM seems to give a quicker symptomatic response from the searches, i have no first hand experience with them. I have read a lot of conflicting information about subQ injections with their saturation time etc. I understand that it takes upto 6 weeks for T to build up in the body and some people show symptomatic improvements by this time so i am wondering whether my lack of response till now could be related to possible delivery system i have chosen?


#2

I began with sub q injections and that's all I ever did. I'm 6 months in. Feeling great. If labs show good levels in your blood, then you've got good levels. It did take me about six weeks to feel the effects. I know I've shared this info with you before, but I wanted to reassure you that I've only done sub q injections.


#3

I asked my doc (a hormone expert that takes care of pro bodybuilders in my area) about this (because less holes in the muscle/easier injection sounds great to me)... verbatim response was "don't get cute".

Given that I'm a wuss, and have my fiancee/LPN injecting me... we're "by the book" IM, 1x weekly.

That said, I'm sure the tune will change when FDA finally approves sub-q.


#4

I know you've been very helpful. Today marks 6 weeks, there needs to be something now which helps the main symptoms I have. Was just looking for possible reasons for this. I don't consider myself having other hormonal issues as well so I'm bummed and would hate this traumatic time to continue. I have needed therapy to go through such an ambiguous diagnostic process and the initial change in hormones made me into an emotional mess as well. I just don't know what step I would need to take to feel normal again. I am not depressed at all but I am listless still.


#5

I understand your predicament. Just seems like once the injected material (whatever it is) has reached your blood, the route of administration doesn't matter. As a matter of fact, I had to cut back my dose because my TT and FT were sky high. The only things I've read about sub q injections is that the absorption rate is a little slower and thus more steady. Also, most hormones are either given sub q (insulin) or transdermal (female hormones). So the route of administration isn't going to be the cause of your frustrations.


#6

I thought the same but there's talk about how long it takes to build up levels. When injecting serum levels are going to be up in a couple of days but effect comes later. SubQ as there's talk, could be slower in that building up. But I'm talking out of my ass without any real knowledge on this. Oh well! Life's not been very kind to me at this young age.


#7

Lol, I get how there could be a small time difference between the the two types of injections. But once you've got established levels in your blood and they've been there awhile, it's all the same.

Have you fully explored the thyroid and/or adrenal aspects? This is above my pay grade, but I really want to see you kicking ass and taking names!


#8

Yes. There's nothing obviously wrong with them. I do not think a minor, undetectable thing could be behind such problems. Cortisol is good AM and PM( serum), thyroid labs are good. Ft3 and ft4 mid range and higher. TSH-1.2-1.8. Body temps are low in the mornings but always around 98.6-99 6 hrs after waking or so.


#9

Well I'm fresh outta ideas. What do you think about the guy who feels awesome when his E2 is really low? Is it possible that 22 is not the Holy Grail for everyone?

His E2 was 8.1 when he felt his best!!


#10

Well we'll have to find out if I don't feel better in a couple more weeks. With you, you started feeling the effects first after 6 weeks, correct? I'm at exact 6 weeks today. Let's see! There's been some improvement in erections so it's doing something. Low E is bad for health and I wouldn't want to put my bone health in jeopardy for example. I don't want to be the one who changes things often and end up never stabilised.


#11

According to my blood tests my last 12 week of injecting SubQ has had great results. I did not tell my doctor I had altered his protocol. He was happy with the test results, he did not expect my testosterone levels to be that high, but they were not too high. The 900's are good, he just normally likes to work his way up to it. My E2 was a little high but not more than expected with that serum TRT level.

In other words it seems SubQ gave me a little better utilization than normal and a lot less pain. Throw away those damn big needles they are only easier on the person drawing and injection. The person on the receiving end of that 25g one inch needle on the other hand in not having much fun. A 29G 1/2" is much better in all but one way. Fill your little 1/2" insulin needle from the plunger side with a 20g 1 1/2" syringe and you have the best of all worlds at the cost of only one more syringe. Ok make that two because you also go to twice a week injections. But they are painless


#12

With the recent surge of TRT injections being given to teenage girls (transgenders they say, I say child abuse) we are seeing studies about SubQ TRT injections. The results are showing it to be the superior way. So if we must ruin kids at lest we seeing research on this come out of it.

I think we will see the FDA come around now that there is a push for it. It is very spendy to take kids to a doctor every week for injections. But even kids can self inject with insulin needles. Full grown men. No one much cares with us


#13

I had the same results as Verne. My T levels were higher than expected.


#14

I'm not suggesting a low E2, but maybe something in the mid teens??


#15

I think Nash nailed it when he said the delivery method doesn't matter if your levels are up. There has been a lot of talk about this on the All Things Male forum, but no real hard studies to back it up. Seems people keep saying lower conversion to E but again, no real science or proof.


#16

I agree, my question was different!

How is your progress going?


#17

Yes I know you were asking about a quicker symptomatic response. I have seen no mention of this on the other forums but you seem to be more knowledgeable than most here. The T affect would be how quickly it absorbs into your blood stream. From a common sense stand point fat versus muscle would obviously differ slightly, but I would think only in the short term of course and not week over week. So I doubt symptomatic response would be different but that's just a rationalization through the process with no scientific back up. Your thoughts?

With regard to me personally, I just completed week 6 on Sunday. I feel about 20-30% boost in energy and slightly improved mood. I wouldn't say its a 180 from where I was before but even my wife has noticed my energy level increase. My workouts are not really stronger or anything but just being able to warrior through them is a nice change that should make improvement. I just got my blood test late last week. I will post the results of my 6 weeks today or tomorrow when I get them.


#18

There are guys on all things male who really micromanage their E2 levels. I mean really micromanage. They wake up and decide how they are feeling. If morning wood was not there or not as strong they take a very small dose of Adex. They play this game every day. Some even play with their T dose. What do you think of this? Can very small fluctuations in E2 really make or break this process?


#19

The thing is that scientific studies are done when there's a wide need to do so. Specially in case of hypogonadism, you can see how little doctors understand. People with TT<260 ng/dl are mostly not even considered low. The science you are talking about still suggests huge 200-400mg T cyp doses once every 2-4 weeks. So such a small facet is unlikely to be covered as it's a new administration technique.

I have had some relief from depression recently, but i'm still where i was before being diagnosed. The diagnostic process (3 months or so) crushed me hard. You know the game. Morning erections are getting better. Guess, we need to play the waiting game and be patient.


#20

I cannot stand that forum. It's not a science experiment. I get paranoid when i read through some posts there. They're a bunch of hypochondriacs. Nothing is what it seems there, in terms of reports and doctors opinions.

As for whether it can make or break the process, i highly doubt it. There are millions of men on TRT with gels and pellets and what not and they still do okay and move on. When everything is laid out as it is here and you know what you are doing, it cannot be that tough to the extent of what these jokers do at times.

We discussed this another thread as well where you wanted to dial everything in and not worry about it. There is not a single person in the world that wakes up with the same enthusiasm every day. TRT is a medical treatment for a disease, not a miracle and people find that hard to accept.