T Nation

Anyone See Sicko?

I went and saw this movie yesterday, and had to say that although I am usually cautious of a Michael Moore movie, I thought it was very well done. He takes a look at the Healthcare system in this country and compares it to other “mediocre” countries with less sophisticated technologies.

I know this is a bodybuilding and strength athlete website for the most part, but health and fitness being crucial for both (you arent going to build much muscle and/or lose fat while laid up in a hospital bed.) Overall I thought it was very well done and entertaining. A refreshing documentary which is a change from the usual predictable movies you see today. Please share your thoughts on this movie T-People.

My only thought on the movie is that the only way I’ll watch the movie is if it’s free. Michael Moore isn’t getting any of my money.

i actually watched it two weeks ago on the internets. He probaly cherrypicks his facts, but theres no debate on whether the US system isn’t in trouble. I thought it was well made and hilarious. THe 911 workers who went to CUBA and actually received treatment was a real feel good ending.

http://therealcuba.com/Page10.htm

If Michael Moore told me my pants were on fire, I’d wait until my balls got hot before I bothered to look. He more than cherry picks his facts, he is notorious for playing quotes out of context, twisting facts, and “artistically” sprucing up interviews.

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

http://www.davekopel.org/terror/59Deceits.pdf

Now, naturally, you can’t just blindly believe what anybody tells you, no matter which “side” you’re on… But everything about Michael Moore makes me not trust him.

[quote]Norwell Bob wrote:
http://therealcuba.com/Page10.htm

If Michael Moore told me my pants were on fire, I’d wait until my balls got hot before I bothered to look. He more than cherry picks his facts, he is notorious for playing quotes out of context, twisting facts, and “artistically” sprucing up interviews.

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

http://www.davekopel.org/terror/59Deceits.pdf

Now, naturally, you can’t just blindly believe what anybody tells you, no matter which “side” you’re on… But everything about Michael Moore makes me not trust him.[/quote]

He might cherry pick facts, but the thing is if 1/10th of what he says is right or true it still sends a strong message. No one can say that the American health system is not messed up. No matter how much you want to disprove it, when you go to another country and they spend 6 dollars for pills and we spend 150, someone is getting screwed.

He certainly carries a ‘boy who cried wolf’ stigma.

If people would actually pay attention to some of his interviews, I don’t think that I would have as much of a problem with him. A ‘real’ documentary is like a regular news article (there might be a slant but the attempt is to state the facts), he says his movies are more akin to an editorial.

It is interesting to see how people in some of the other countries respond to this movie. I talked to a few Brits who had already seen it (on the internet) and were laughing about some parts.

They have never seen a (I don’t know the word they used but I think it translates to clinic or hospital) as empty and clean as the one in the movie, and in response to the doctor with a 500,000 pound house, they surmised that his wife was very well off.

edit: wow I just realized that I may have said some things that were said in the other Sicko thread. For example, I think I saw Thunderbolt refer to him as the boy who cried wolf and I just absorbed it and didn’t realize it (hey, a hat-tip when a hat-tip is due).

Nothing wrong with pointing out the faults of the US system (there are plenty).

Problem is, Moore doesn’t provide an honest debate. He creates an illusion that actually detracts from the debate we need to have.

He is a hustler, a modern-day carnival barker - and crowds of dupes make him richer while never realizing the irony of doing so.

He does the exact same thing that every major news station does.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Nothing wrong with pointing out the faults of the US system (there are plenty).

Problem is, Moore doesn’t provide an honest debate. He creates an illusion that actually detracts from the debate we need to have.

He is a hustler, a modern-day carnival barker - and crowds of dupes make him richer while never realizing the irony of doing so.[/quote]

What is the debate? You love paying for health care and medicine and it still being crap?

[quote]Outrage247 wrote:

What is the debate? You love paying for health care and medicine and it still being crap? [/quote]

Is this a serious question?

Because if it is, you have already showed your cards that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[quote]Outrage247 wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Nothing wrong with pointing out the faults of the US system (there are plenty).

Problem is, Moore doesn’t provide an honest debate. He creates an illusion that actually detracts from the debate we need to have.

He is a hustler, a modern-day carnival barker - and crowds of dupes make him richer while never realizing the irony of doing so.

What is the debate? You love paying for health care and medicine and it still being crap?

[/quote]

Crap? The level of care in the US is normally much higher than the rest of the world. Socialized medicine rationed and often worse.

The US system is too expensive and insurance companies are taking too big a share of the money by the level of care is excellent.

Many people from Europe and Canada come to the US and pay for treatment here rather than deal with the problems with the “free” systems is their own countries. Moore is dishonest because he ignores these facts.

Every media in the United States has some political agenda, no matter if it is your 10 pm news, CNN, or Foxnews.

I’m not sure how much some people are aware of this. Just like this documentary, many others (outside of national geographic maybe) have a political agenda as well.

The United States healthcare system is good in some aspects and bad in others. The main problem is the insurance companies, as others have stated, but it fits into the economic aspect of the United States.

I know many people suggest a socialistic or uniform healthcare for all, but if you really want that, go to another country that already has that in place. Choosing which country to live in is all about balancing out the overall pros and cons. Until there exists a utopia somewhere, this country is doing pretty damn well enough for me.

On the topic of Michael Moore, I think he does a great job at stirring controversy and catching an audience. He’s a good film maker.

[quote]itsthetimman wrote:
but if you really want that, go to another country that already has that in place. Choosing which country to live in is all about balancing out the overall pros and cons. [/quote]

I agree with everything you said but this. I think this country (or any country you were born in) should be shaped by the people in it, and that means doing your best to change the things you don’t like about it, and fight to keep the things you do like about it.

Unfortunately there are too many people who are easily persuaded by either “side” to make one man’s efforts effective.

As a visitor to many other countries, I have had the feeling that I would rather have been able to say I was from a different country other than the US when I was in the military, especially when visiting third world countries.

I think this country has been built on some great principles, but they have seemed to go by the way side more and more the longer this country has survived.

I don’t believe in the “if you don’t like it, then leave” mentality. I’m more for the “if you don’t like it, then change it” mentality.

Funny I think the thread starter asked if anyone else had seen the movie “Sicko” which few who responded have and not “what do you think about Michael Moore”. Sure I can see why the conversation would lead that way, but if you haven’t seen it how can you have a positive or negative opinion. Sure if you have the $ then I guess you wouldn’t have many complaints with the American Health Care system.

It’s not like Michael Moore ever said Iraq was a good idea, lol!